Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[Smifffy]

have you got a link to this? The ACC site is a fucking mess.

I did manage to find some Terms of Reference, but they do not clearly state it.

Yeah, I had found the terms of reference too, I had always thought that the NZ McSAC was modelled after the Victorian one. Comparing the terms of reference for the two organisations shows however that they are completely different animals.

Our one definitely reads like a puppet of ACC.

Also with the regard to no public statements, it only prohibits a member from either ACC or McSAC bringing the other into disrepute.

In fact part of their brief is 'engaging & communicating with the wider motorcycling community'

Fucking brilliant job they are doing of that too innit?

Oh and their meetings are quarterly, so no need for the chairman to actually be in the country or on the roads here any more than is strictly necessary.

I sincerely hope that the government is not expecting results similar to what the Vic group has achieved, since they have been stymied right from square one.

Interesting also that the group has a 3 year life and members are on for 2 years, but may be reappointed.

With a timeframe like that they shouldn't be mucking around.

A cynic might even suggest there will be 2 years of some dedicated people banging their heads against bureaucratic redtape for two years, then some more ministerial appointees will turn up to blow the budget as directed in the final year.

Use lube next time eh Nick?

[StoneY]

Yeah, I had found the terms of reference too, I had always thought that the NZ McSAC was modelled after the Victorian one. Comparing the terms of reference for the two organisations shows however that they are completely different animals.

Our one definitely reads like a puppet of ACC.

Also with the regard to no public statements, it only prohibits a member from either ACC or McSAC bringing the other into disrepute.

In fact part of their brief is 'engaging & communicating with the wider motorcycling community'

Fucking brilliant job they are doing of that too innit?

What do you call what I am doing here, and the fact every rep bar one is from Biker Representation groups? The Vic group have told us we are light years ahead of where they were at the same stage of progress

Oh and their meetings are quarterly, so no need for the chairman to actually be in the country or on the roads here any more than is strictly necessary.

I sincerely hope that the government is not expecting results similar to what the Vic group has achieved, since they have been stymied right from square one.

On the Victoria visit attended by many of the steering group, we were told that they are too top heavy with officials, and we in NZ were taking a far better approach, so be as cynical as you like, we only take from them what has been proven to work, and do our own thing here..OUR way

Interesting also that the group has a 3 year life and members are on for 2 years, but may be reappointed.

With a timeframe like that they shouldn't be mucking around.

We aint...and how many meetings do you think is needed? The meetings cost taxpayers money after all, NOT MSAC funds but the general ops budget.
We meet a lot more than the official meeting, I for one am meeting with ACC today myself to push a few points raised HERE on Kiwibiker with them, happy now???

A cynic might even suggest there will be 2 years of some dedicated people banging their heads against bureaucratic redtape for two years, then some more ministerial appointees will turn up to blow the budget as directed in the final year.

Use lube next time eh Nick?

You make so many assumtions in your post about the abilities and intentions of the council and its members...you are simply ignorant to make these assumptions and being a total dick.
I for one DO listen to whats being said here, and DO take it back to the rest of the council.
I dont see YOU making a difference for any other motorcyclists with your bullshit here on KB, just adding to the noise and confusion. WHat group are YOU part of Smiffy?
How much work have YOU done to try lower our road toll, or get Bikers recognised as legitimate road users?
Were you standing on the steps of Parliament with BRONZ, Ulysses, HOG, WIMA? Did you go to meet Nick Smith like Nasty and the other reps did?
Just another damn KB troll.........

There is a specific website coming, but is still under construction. Its going to be extremely functional but is another teams responsibility so I cant say anything more, as I have no more knowledge than what I just told you.

Theres nothing more to tell until its done, the council only just formed and started work, we have a long way to go yet before we can even assess real projects.........
I do have some stuff from Vic Roads we have been able to source, wondering if the PPT would attach to this thread.............

[StoneY]

have you got a link to this? The ACC site is a fucking mess.

I did manage to find some Terms of Reference, but they do not clearly state it.

The terms of refference are a guideline for the councils operational functions, it is NOT the legislation behind the MSL
Hope that clarifies?
As I happen to trust you Bogan (you have always been a straight shooter) I am happy to PM you the email address that you can ask your specific questions to

[MSTRS:Me]

The terms of refference are a guideline for the councils operational functions, it is NOT the legislation behind the MSL
Hope that clarifies?
As I happen to trust you Bogan (you have always been a straight shooter) I am happy to PM you the email address that you can ask your specific questions to

Stoney, it sounds like you/the panel will only allow questions from and give info to people that 'can be trusted not to misuse it' and you get to decide who it is that can be trusted.
Sorry, I mean no disrespect, but that is still BULLSHIT.
The panel (Mscac) NEEDS to make a public announcement of where they are at, who is doing what, and where they see themselves headed in terms of doing the job they were appointed for.
As for specific questions they may be willing to answer, then by all means allow individuals to pose them via that email addy. After all, the panel doesn't necessarily know what we want answers to, do they? But the answers should be given publicly.

[StoneY]

Once the website is up MSTRS you can all ask the questions you want to on there, it will have proper contact resources embedded.
Meantime, I just wont pass the email I was given to the trolls like Smiffy.

[MSTRS:Me]

So why not wait until the website is up? If the panel is not prepared to be public about things, why would they consider answering individual 'privately'?
It just doesn't seem right, to me, that there's all this secrecy.

[bogan]

The terms of refference are a guideline for the councils operational functions, it is NOT the legislation behind the MSL
Hope that clarifies?
As I happen to trust you Bogan (you have always been a straight shooter) I am happy to PM you the email address that you can ask your specific questions to

Yeh I realised that, I just couldn't find the legislation with all the broken links etc. It's more of a general statement to all bikers I'm after, so I'll wait till the website is up and go from there.

[StoneY]

Yeh I realised that, I just couldn't find the legislation with all the broken links etc. It's more of a general statement to all bikers I'm after, so I'll wait till the website is up and go from there.

Thanks mate

I'm not hiding anything, I just dont have the authority to speak on official council business...I try to keep you all as informed as I can, result is an email address for the 'saner' contributers is available...no conspiracy.

Basically, if you read through these threads, the number of angry rants far outweighs the reasonable and considered questions and statements...no wonder the ACC and the Chair/Spokeperson ignore the KB threads... Smiffy is a perfect example of the 'why'

[cheshirecat]

May have already considered but there is an argument for reducing MC ACC levies as it would raise their income - we all know why. I believe but haven't verified that their MC income has been reduced since the increases and the Gov needs all the income it can get its scrawley mits on.

Might mean working out out they can save face on a U Turn but we could no doubt help them there as well.

[Smifffy]

Thanks mate

I'm not hiding anything, I just dont have the authority to speak on official council business...I try to keep you all as informed as I can, result is an email address for the 'saner' contributers is available...no conspiracy.

Basically, if you read through these threads, the number of angry rants far outweighs the reasonable and considered questions and statements...no wonder the ACC and the Chair/Spokeperson ignore the KB threads... Smiffy is a perfect example of the 'why'

Ok thanks.

Keep it personal, it's a nice touch.

[StoneY]

Ok thanks.

Keep it personal, it's a nice touch.

Read how your posts are written. Full of dribble and outright inflamatory bullshit.

Yep, its personal alright.

Whats your excuse for being an ignorant fool?

[riffer]

Whats your excuse for being an ignorant fool?

Maybe his high-viz vest is done up too tight and cutting off circulation?

[MSTRS:Me]

Come on guys...in the absence of official communication, and the scarcity of verifiable factual information, people are going to speculate as to what is going on, and make up their own whys.

[Smifffy]

Read how your posts are written. Full of dribble and outright inflamatory bullshit.

Maybe inflammatory to politicians, millionaire businessmen and the AA, because they have all abused my trust before. Give me a direct quote where I have personally attacked either you or any member of the group outside of the three I've mentioned - and I make no secret of my distrust there.


For the record I think most members of the group are fully committed, but hamstrung. PROVE me wrong. In fact I've posted in support of the work you are doing before.

Yep, its personal alright.

Nice. Well played.

Whats your excuse for being an ignorant fool?

Yeah, I'm ignorant on this issue, so educate me, get the McSAC to answer my questions, instead of attacking my character. After all, education falls within the terms of reference doesn't it?

I have tried most avenues for seeking information, including emailing Mr Hipkins as suggested by Simon, and he told me to ask you.

That hasn't got me very far at all.

Think about this for a moment:

If you were not on the committee, weren't privy to the info that you are, but still represented bikers, and heard nothing but a press release, 6 months after the levy began and nothing more for 2 months afterward, what would you be asking?

Many readers of this thread are in a position to say to various riding mates things like "Yeah, you know this McSac has some really good ideas, and could actually help to make life safer for us bikers, we need to get in behind them"

or they could be all like

"ACC used fucked up statistics to gouge bikers for more bucks for the government to waste."

At the moment I'm committed to neither camp, because I'm looking for some info on which to base my decision.

Give me something to stand my flag in the first camp.

Good luck and ride safe.

[Katman]

At the moment I'm committed to neither camp, because I'm looking for some info on which to base my decision.


Give me something to stand my flag in the first camp.

I'll bake you a banana cake.