Fukushima nuclear plant explosion

[The Stranger:Me]

not really worthwhile actually. 3 types of radioactive particles to worry about here: Alpha, Beta and Gamma. Gamma is easiest to detect and travels the farthest. Beta requires a slightly different device to detect and doesnt travel as far as gamma. Then there's alpha's, don't bother trying.

Now as to contamination by the different types think of them like three kinds of cookies.

Gamma cookie: Eat this cookie. Nothing you can do to avoid it. you're going to get it anyhow. takes a lot of lead to stop these guys.

Alpha Cookie: Put it in your pocket. your clothing will stop them. don't eat anything that's been contaminated and wash your hands with soap and water. Which they'll mess you up badly if you do eat them, so don't.

Beta cookie: Toss this one over your shoulder, you really don't want to deal with it.

The good thing is the radiation that is present is from Gamma particles. Least dangerous but hardest to stop.

If you lived near the reactor within thier evacuation zone, I wouldn't eat anything that was left out.

So what's the prognosis for the cookie factory?
The latest I heard was they are going to try and piss on it from a helicopter with monsoon buckets full of boric acid to try and cool them.
I thought these things were encased in concrete tombs. How will this help to cool them.
I know they are saying boric acid helps nutralise radiation, but to cool them, really when they can't even cool them from within?
Shouldn't a priority be to control, prevent, contain and extinguish fires that may carry radiation into the atmosphere?

[Drunken Monkey]

but I still found it funny...Attachment 234518

Meh, it's topical...

[R6_kid:Me]

Until they start telling us what sort of readings they are actually getting I'm not prepared to listen to any of what the media is reporting regarding the nuclear power stations and the "meltdowns" etc.

The problem being that the Japanese have a tendancy to be understated where as the Western Media is always over sensationalised. As said, unless people are inhaling/ingesting a lot of Alpha Particles then there isn't really much more you can do other than stay as far away from the plants as possible, which is already being done.

[pete376403]

from Wikileaks, a report in 2008:
"2. (SBU) Delegations from the G8 countries plus representatives of the European Union, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD), and the International Atomic Energy Agency met in Tokyo December 3 and 4 for the Third Nuclear Safety and Security Group (NSSG) meeting of 2008. The meeting was chaired by Japan and included 47 representatives from the various parties. "

and

"6. (SBU) On earthquakes and nuclear safety, the IAEA presenter noted the Agency has officials in Japan to learn from Japan's recent experience dealing with earthquakes and described several areas of IAEA focus. First, he explained that safety guides for seismic safety have only been revised three times in the last 35 years and that the IAEA is now reexamining them. Also, the presenter noted recent earthquakes in some cases have exceeded the design basis for some nuclear plants"

So they can't claim no-one was expecting this to happen

[george formby]

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/sh...ctive-fue.html


Don't read to far or you will find out the spent fuel rods were stored on the roof of the reactors

[Mental Trousers]

The latest I heard was they are going to try and piss on it from a helicopter with monsoon buckets full of boric acid to try and cool them.

I can't help thinking that's for PR reasons as I can't see how pouring water on a sealed reactor is going to help anything. Unless they're trying to cool the stuff outside the containment vessel or they're trying to suppress airborne shit like dust. If that shits getting too hot then surely things are somewhat worse than we're being led to believe??

[george formby]

I can't help thinking that's for PR reasons as I can't see how pouring water on a sealed reactor is going to help anything. Unless they're trying to cool the stuff outside the containment vessel or they're trying to suppress airborne shit like dust. If that shits getting too hot then surely things are somewhat worse than we're being led to believe??

Read the link above. Different perspective on the situation.

[avgas]

not really worthwhile actually. 3 types of radioactive particles to worry about here: Alpha, Beta and Gamma. Gamma is easiest to detect and travels the farthest. Beta requires a slightly different device to detect and doesnt travel as far as gamma. Then there's alpha's, don't bother trying.

Now as to contamination by the different types think of them like three kinds of cookies.

Gamma cookie: Eat this cookie. Nothing you can do to avoid it. you're going to get it anyhow. takes a lot of lead to stop these guys.

Alpha Cookie: Put it in your pocket. your clothing will stop them. don't eat anything that's been contaminated and wash your hands with soap and water. Which they'll mess you up badly if you do eat them, so don't.

Beta cookie: Toss this one over your shoulder, you really don't want to deal with it.

The good thing is the radiation that is present is from Gamma particles. Least dangerous but hardest to stop.

If you lived near the reactor within thier evacuation zone, I wouldn't eat anything that was left out.

You might want to point out that the radiation given off by the 'Gamma' is actually a primary cause of cancer (due to radiation).
Gamma radiation is also one of the worst kinds of radiation.

But then again if all your worried about is particles you know your already fucked. Not straight away. But fucked none the less.

[Mental Trousers]

Read the link above. Different perspective on the situation.

Ta

[Pixie]

Funny thing is,the populations/occupations with a lower that normal risk of cancer are those of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and radiologists.
For an explanation of why this is look up Hormesis

[Mike Troutman]

So what's the prognosis for the cookie factory?
The latest I heard was they are going to try and piss on it from a helicopter with monsoon buckets full of boric acid to try and cool them.
I thought these things were encased in concrete tombs. How will this help to cool them.
I know they are saying boric acid helps nutralise radiation, but to cool them, really when they can't even cool them from within?
Shouldn't a priority be to control, prevent, contain and extinguish fires that may carry radiation into the atmosphere?

Boric acid is a neutron moderator (it's absorbs neutrons). By doing so it reduces the reactivity of the fuel. Fewer neutrons ziping about => fewer reactions with the nuclear fuel => less heat generated.
They've actually been injecting boric acid into the core for some time now, just now they're dumping it into the pools as well. The problem they're running into is that without operating pumps there's no water circulation, without the water circulation it's very hard to control temperature. The pools are supposed to be maintained at 25deg but they're at over 80deg last they could check in unit 4.

Granted, it's not a good situation but radiation levels at the site boundry have been decreasing despite some increase in radiation levels at the reactors.

The media isn't doing a very good job I've noticed of talking about what any of the numbers mean either. Leave it to say that radiation dose limits are there to prevent one from suffering ill effects not the point at which you will suffer effects. I highly recomend checking out WNN (Worls Nuclear News) for practical information on what is really going on at the sites. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/

You'll find plenty of in depth information and links to information there that will help explain things better than the media is.

Cooling pond temperatures

As reported by the International Atomic Energy Agency:

Unit 4

14 March, 10.08am GMT: 84 ˚C

15 March, 10.00am GMT: 84 ˚C

16 March, 05.00am GMT: no data




Unit 5

14 March, 10.08am GMT: 59.7 ˚C

15 March, 10.00am GMT: 60.4 ˚C

16 March, 05.00am GMT: 62.7 ˚C


Unit 6

14 March, 10.08am GMT: 58.0 ˚C

15 March, 10.00am GMT: 58.5 ˚C

16 March, 05.00am GMT: 60.0 ˚C

Neither the IAEA nor the Japan Atomic Industry Forum have data for units 1, 2 and 3.

[Mike Troutman]

You might want to point out that the radiation given off by the 'Gamma' is actually a primary cause of cancer (due to radiation).
Gamma radiation is also one of the worst kinds of radiation.

But then again if all your worried about is particles you know your already fucked. Not straight away. But fucked none the less.

Alpha and Beta particles are actually the most damaging not Gamma. Gamma is consisdered a primary cause simply for the fact that it's the hardest to stop not for its actual affect on the body. Plus Gamma particles occur in the greatest numbers.

An Alpha particle is actually 2 protons and 2 neutrons identical to a helium nucleus.

A Gamma particle is a photon (everything in the electromagnetic spectrum)

An Beta particle electrons or positrons (these are the worst)

Beta radiation is by far the worst form of ionizing radiation. The reason for that is as the particle size increases the chances of collision with another particle increase.

It's the ionizing ability of the radiation that creates the danger. Alpha has the highest ionizing potential, Gamma the lowest.

Here are some quality factor values based on ICRP 103 recommendations:[15]

Photons, all energies : Q = 1
Electrons and muons, all energies : Q = 1
Protons and charged pions : Q = 2
Neutrons : Q is a continuous function of neutron energy
Alpha particles and other atomic nuclei : Q = 20

[Mike Troutman]

Until they start telling us what sort of readings they are actually getting I'm not prepared to listen to any of what the media is reporting regarding the nuclear power stations and the "meltdowns" etc.

The problem being that the Japanese have a tendancy to be understated where as the Western Media is always over sensationalised. As said, unless people are inhaling/ingesting a lot of Alpha Particles then there isn't really much more you can do other than stay as far away from the plants as possible, which is already being done.

WNN has been posting actual readings as recieved from the IAEA

[Mike Troutman]

Casualties among power plant workers

•Two Tepco employees have minor injuries.
•Two contractors were injured when the quake struck and were taken to hospital, one suffering two broken legs.
•A Tepco worker was taken to hospital after collapsing and experiencing chest pains.
•A subcontract worker at an "important earthquake-proof building" was found unconscious and was taken to hospital.
•Two Tepco workers felt ill whilst working in the control rooms of Fukushima Daiichi units 1 and 2 and were taken to the medical centre at Fukushima Daini.
•Four workers were injured in the hydrogen explosion at Fukushima Daiichi 1. They were all taken to hospital.
•Eleven workers (four Tepco workers, three subcontract workers and four members of Self Defence Force) were hurt following a similar explosion at Fukushima Daiichi 3. They were transferred to the Fukushima Daini plant. One of the Tepco employees, complaining of pain in his side, was later transferred to hospital.
•The whereabouts of two Tepco workers, who had been in the turbine building of Fukushima Daiichi unit 4, is unknown.
•Only one casualty has been reported at the Fukushima Daini plant. A worker in the crane operating console of the exhaust stack was seriously injured when the earthquake struck. He subsequently died.

Contamination cases

•One Tepco worker working within the reactor building of Fukushima Daiichi unit 3 during "vent work" was taken to hospital after receiving radiation exposure exceeding 100 mSv, a level deemed acceptable in emergency situations by some national nuclear safety regulators.
•Nine Tepco employees and eight subcontractors suffered facial exposure to low levels of radiation. They did not require hospital treatment.
•Two policemen were decontaminated after beng exposed to radiation.
•An unspecified number of firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation.

[avgas]

Alpha and Beta particles are actually the most damaging not Gamma. Gamma is consisdered a primary cause simply for the fact that it's the hardest to stop not for its actual affect on the body. Plus Gamma particles occur in the greatest numbers.
An Alpha particle is actually 2 protons and 2 neutrons identical to a helium nucleus.
A Gamma particle is a photon (everything in the electromagnetic spectrum)
An Beta particle electrons or positrons (these are the worst)
Beta radiation is by far the worst form of ionizing radiation. The reason for that is as the particle size increases the chances of collision with another particle increase.
It's the ionizing ability of the radiation that creates the danger. Alpha has the highest ionizing potential, Gamma the lowest.
Here are some quality factor values based on ICRP 103 recommendations:[15]
Photons, all energies : Q = 1
Electrons and muons, all energies : Q = 1
Protons and charged pions : Q = 2
Neutrons : Q is a continuous function of neutron energy
Alpha particles and other atomic nuclei : Q = 20

Hmmmm thats strange the tail end of your message was missing (quality factors etc), so have re-quoted whole thing so others can see.

I can't help but mention that you are quoting as if a substance was next subject.

Gamma is bad as its effectively restrained by the speed and distance of light. Where as particles not so much. Seeing as there is no 'reported' particle fallout yet, I am more concerned for the people in Japan from 'bone sunburn' if you will than breathing difficulties.

As it has already been shown that the wind is out to sea at this point.