Another one bites the dust

[Latte]

everyone gets his message though - all of you have said "The message is sound, the delivery sucks" if he'd been limp wristed about it there's a good chance no one would remember/care what he has to say.

It's easy to read the sign, while you're taking pot shots at it.

[oneofsix]

everyone gets his message though - all of you have said "The message is sound, the delivery sucks" if he'd been limp wristed about it there's a good chance no one would remember/care what he has to say.

It's easy to read the sign, while you're taking pot shots at it.

don't agree. Message gets lost because of the reaction to the delivery. As granny used to say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. For his message to get through people have to read and THINK about it, not just react to his delivery. Now I am being kind and assuming he has a message cause he and you say he has one and isn't just being an anti-biker grump or troll.

[Katman]

Message gets lost because of the reaction to the delivery.

The message would get lost a whole lot quicker if there was no reaction.

The reaction is merely the raw nerve that I've brought to the surface.

[Latte]

don't agree. Message gets lost because of the reaction to the delivery. As granny used to say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. For his message to get through people have to read and THINK about it, not just react to his delivery. Now I am being kind and assuming he has a message cause he and you say he has one and isn't just being an anti-biker grump or troll.

Definitely a different view point from mine, nothing wrong with that. I guess people react differently to the same situations.

Admittedly I haven't been around here a long time, but from when I've started to now, more people are openly agreeing with Katman's message. (I believe a lot of people do agree with what he's trying to get across, but choose not to state it, just because it's him).

My opinion is he's mixing the stereotypical "American Drill Sargent" approach of creating a common enemy (himself) and "all publicity is good publicity".

His message is there, it's blatant (to me at least).

[marie_speeds]

The trouble with Katman is that, although his message is on the money (most of the time), his delivery leaves a lot to be desired. He expects EVERY biker to listen to him like he's god himself.

You mean he isn't?

I for one like what he has to say..... As a fairly new road rider, his message makes sense. I have spent a lot of time reading through various threads on this site, and seem to think that the disagreements stem from the fact that many of the people on this site agree with him but would rather go to the dentist for a tooth extraction without drugs than admit he is right.

[Edbear]

The message would get lost a whole lot quicker if there was no reaction.

The reaction is merely the raw nerve that I've brought to the surface.

No, it's your delivery and the attitude that comes across, rightly or wrongly.

Definitely a different view point from mine, nothing wrong with that. I guess people react differently to the same situations.

Admittedly I haven't been around here a long time, but from when I've started to now, more people are openly agreeing with Katman's message. (I believe a lot of people do agree with what he's trying to get across, but choose not to state it, just because it's him).

My opinion is he's mixing the stereotypical "American Drill Sargent" approach of creating a common enemy (himself) and "all publicity is good publicity".

His message is there, it's blatant (to me at least).

Could be, I'd be inclined to tell the Drill Sargent where to stick his attitude...

You mean he isn't?

I for one like what he has to say..... As a fairly new road rider, his message makes sense. I have spent a lot of time reading through various threads on this site, and seem to think that the disagreements stem from the fact that many of the people on this site agree with him but would rather go to the dentist for a tooth extraction without drugs than admit he is right.

But you're a nice intelligent person who doesn't over-react...

[Dogboy900]

I just wonder how many people have had an off but will not post up here about it because they can't be bothered putting up with the shit they know will follow.

If people post about an accident giving details and looking at the cause it helps us all look at what we would have done or can do in that situation.

hearing "you could have avoided it but I won't tell you how, you deserved it" helps no one in my opinion

[Katman]

If people post about an accident giving details and looking at the cause it helps us all look at what we would have done or can do in that situation.

And it would be great if that were the way it worked.

In reality though, we more often than not hear how the accident was totally unavoidable - and any suggestion that it might well have been avoided falls on deaf ears, blind eyes and loud mouths.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sometimes an 'accident' is a fatal, and discussion of the causes etc is not allowed. Whilst I understand the reason/s for this, it is a shame, since no-one ever wants to discuss such things when they are 'old news', or a theoretical situation.
For the record, Katman has never wavered in his condemnation of idiot-riding - his only failing is that he doesn't get into discussions of good riding practices. Sadly, this causes many to ignore what he says - and some of those are no longer with us.

[Oblivion]

Sometimes an 'accident' is a fatal, and discussion of the causes etc is not allowed.

Why not? If we all discuss what caused ________ to crash, surely we could come up with a generalized safety code for motorcyclists to follow. Hell, If we push hard enough, we could revamp the pathetic rode code to include these things.

[Latte]

Sometimes an 'accident' is a fatal, and discussion of the causes etc is not allowed. Whilst I understand the reason/s for this, it is a shame, since no-one ever wants to discuss such things when they are 'old news', or a theoretical situation.
For the record, Katman has never wavered in his condemnation of idiot-riding - his only failing is that he doesn't get into discussions of good riding practices. Sadly, this causes many to ignore what he says - and some of those are no longer with us.

Yes, quite often in threads "lets wait for the facts before jumping to conclusions" a week later and the thread is gone. When the facts (coroners report, court hearing, whatever) are released it never gets the light of day. Shame really.

[MSTRS:Me]

Why not? If we all discuss what caused ________ to crash, surely we could come up with a generalized safety code for motorcyclists to follow. Hell, If we push hard enough, we could revamp the pathetic rode code to include these things.

I agree. But a site rule was made a long time ago. No discussion on fatals UNLESS the (dead) poster has ticked the OK box in their UserCP, and UNLESS their family are happy for said discussion to take place.
Families often come into KB after losing their loved one, for all sorts of reasons, but I doubt that they want to read all the bullshit that often accompanies such threads.

[idb]

I obviously don't take it all seriously enough.
I don't generally feel the need to critically analyse anyone else's riding, or complain about the authorities or other road users' attitudes to us, nor do I feel the need to bare my motorcycling soul to this forum or anyone else.
I do it because I enjoy it and for no other reason.
That probably makes me as shallow as a birdbath but, apart from the odd bitch every now and then about some wanker that has particularly pissed me off I'm not interested in getting into activism or preaching to others.

My bikes are toys to me and I ride them for fun...there I've said it and I don't care...ahahahahaaaaaa!!!!

[Katman]

I obviously don't take it all seriously enough.
I don't generally feel the need to critically analyse anyone else's riding, or complain about the authorities or other road users' attitudes to us, nor do I feel the need to bare my motorcycling soul to this forum or anyone else.
I do it because I enjoy it and for no other reason.
That probably makes me as shallow as a birdbath but, apart from the odd bitch every now and then about some wanker that has particularly pissed me off I'm not interested in getting into activism or preaching to others.

My bikes are toys to me and I ride them for fun...there I've said it and I don't care...ahahahahaaaaaa!!!!

And that's fair enough.

It's just that some of us are getting sick and fucking tired of being penalised for the bad form of others.

[swbarnett]

It's just that some of us are getting sick and fucking tired of being penalised for the bad form of others.

And therein lies the crux of where we differ (I assume you mean that bad form of other motorcyclists).

We are not being penalised for the bad form of other motorcyclists. We are being penailsed because of the emotive, misguided, fear driven thinking of the nanny state.

This will only change when they get it through their thick skulls that they have no right to try and save me from myself. And that applies to life in general, not just motorcycling.