Three Strikes Protest Run, 5 May

[flyingcrocodile46]

took someone a long time to say it!

Truly simple ignorance isn't as common as it used to be amongst the blinkered majority.

[Gearup]

Hindsight is useful in analyzing failures. Though if it was replaced with foresight, those who chose to further fragment biker unity by detracting from BRONZ rather than putting their efforts into helping them, may have better appreciated the issues involved and avoided squandering the limited support that was on offer from the masses.

It ain't like a crystal ball was needed. Sometimes less is more.

At the risk of further inflaming the acrominy, it's interesting to hear a BRONZ version.

The phrase "the limited support that was on offer from the masses" seems to be true for both MAG and BRONZ.

Such a pity that nothing seems to be moving forward.

Is it too late to start talking to each other to get the major issue of ACC payers being ripped off resolved.

[Ratti]

As far as I know, there has not been a problem in communication between BRONZ and MAG-NZ....

WE dont always agree, but have had respect for each others views. Personally I will continue to believe there is room for both points of view. Same coin, different sides dear.

[Gearup]

As far as I know, there has not been a problem in communication between BRONZ and MAG-NZ....

WE dont always agree, but have had respect for each others views. Personally I will continue to believe there is room for both points of view. Same coin, different sides dear.

I didn't say there was a problem in communication but the mere fact you say "same coin, different sides" doesn't make it a meeting of like minds.

[Ratti]

plenty of room for all I would have thought

[flyingcrocodile46]

United we ain't divided we fell.

I believe it is over a year too late. The moment has been and gone. Most of us are over it now. Just the clingers remain to make a smell and frankly I'm sick of it. I feel it makes us all look stupid.

As Stoney said, all that was required was for the Mag movers to attend BRONZ meetings and vote themselves in. If they had support at the start it would have been an easy no fuss transition.

[Mom]

As Stoney said, all that was required was for the Mag movers to attend BRONZ meetings and vote themselves in. If they had support at the start it would have been an easy no fuss transition.

My Mother died the day of the AGM.

[jafar]

United we ain't divided we fell.

I believe it is over a year too late. The moment has been and gone. Most of us are over it now. Just the clingers remain to make a smell and frankly I'm sick of it. I feel it makes us all look stupid.

As Stoney said, all that was required was for the Mag movers to attend BRONZ meetings and vote themselves in. If they had support at the start it would have been an easy no fuss transition.

You are right, the time has passed, a year later MAG is still bleating on about the ACC & how unfair it is.

Bronz seemed to have a similar situation within their membership as MAG has now. Perhaps combining the two would have the effect of a united voice??

Bronz- MAG anyone???

[StoneY]

I didn't say there was a problem in communication but the mere fact you say "same coin, different sides" doesn't make it a meeting of like minds.

And that is true. However, no matter how one perceives it both organisations have YOUR interests at heart, and do the best they can with the support they have :-)

[StoneY]

My Mother died the day of the AGM.

Sorry to hear that Anne
Surely MAG was more than one person though?
And I see many ex (and current) BRONZ members in your founding member list.

I am constantly reminded that BRONZ Wellington is more than just Brent Hutchison's opinions..... (god damn it!)
I saw the comment 'protest by committee made earlier in the thread...

Well YES that's what an organisation has to live with, what else did anyone expect?
No one person should make ALL the decisions, thats life in the world of biker representation...herding cats.........

[Gearup]

plenty of room for all I would have thought

Same type of comment, different day "dear".

[Gearup]

And that is true. However, no matter how one perceives it both organisations have YOUR interests at heart, and do the best they can with the support they have :-)

There's no queston of each organisation having the bikers interests at heart. The issue is one of the divided support between BRONZ and MAG like the Croc said.

How do you think bikers perceive that?

[Fatt Max]

There's no queston of each organisation having the bikers interests at heart. The issue is one of the divided support between BRONZ and MAG like the Croc said.

How do you think bikers perceive that?

I suppose in my humble opinion, there was always going to be a certain amount of division, same as there is with the likes of Ulysses, MNZ and the wider biker community.

My personal opinion was that both organizations were applying varied methods to achieve the common goal. MAG was based on action, BRONZ had a political approach. I think at the end of the day, if the issues were big and loud enough, ALL bikers would have supported it no matter what side of the fence they were on.

Certain people may criticize me for what I say now, but it was clear that BRONZ were working away at their thing but the problem was nobody knew (certainly in Auckland as far as I could see) what 'their thing' was. MAG were doing all their backroom work but, certainly in the early days, had more of an information flow going. Whether you agreed or disagreed with MAG you always knew whet they were doing. BRONZ in Auckland were almost invisible.

As for BRONZ Wellington, well, a different story. There were lines of communications open, there seemed to be much more information flow and they made things happen.

In my view, everything came to a head when the MSL was announced. The threads on that showed some deep division within the biker community even outside of MAG and BRONZ. However, as I said (to my cost as has transpired), that whole debate should have been the catalyst for bikers to come together and have their voice heard.

You could support the MSL or not, but either way there was an angle where the politicians would be held to account for their actions. My tiny mind could see an opportunity for a level of solidarity there, but it was not to be.

So as for ‘divided support’, well, those two words fit very well to describe how BRONZ and MAG countered each other when working towards the same thing.

I have been called all sorts of names by various people for even suggesting this in the past, but I don’t really give a fuck. All I want is the best outcome for the biker community regardless of who is who and what is what.

[MSTRS:Me]

...........
All I want is the best outcome for the biker community regardless of who is who and what is what.

If only that was what the biker 'community' wanted too...

[StoneY]

There's no queston of each organisation having the bikers interests at heart. The issue is one of the divided support between BRONZ and MAG like the Croc said.

How do you think bikers perceive that?

Well, there is also the National Forum of motorcycle Clubs that MAG and BRONZ both contribute too, my placement on the MSAC, and other initiatives that have come and gone over the years.............
Should we state they are also taking away support from BRONZ? For many years there was nothing to get upset about, seems this govt has made us all wake up a bit (and that includes me)

I can see why MAG came to be, but personally I agree somewhat with your point of view about splitting the pool, its small enough as it is.
But like political parties, we cant force people to choose what to vote for.........or who to join.
People like to choose what organisations they join, and will leave behind ones that they think are ineffective and I can see how many people felt we (BRONZ) did not do enough post BIKEOI to take our gains further...
I like to think we had an effect on reducing the levy rise somewhat but...no way to prove that is there?
And Les mason was the one who started that ball rolling..... is it fair to blame him for the apathy that descended after the event?
God know all BRONZ groups tried to keep the momentum up but it seemed to me everyone had shot their load.
The second protest we ran, in Feb 2010 fizzled out, only 80 people from the unions bothered coming despite the huge sums spent by CTU to publicize it... apathy, a nationwide disease.
360 odd Biker came too, some even from Auckland but nothing like we saw for Nov 09

Wellington BRONZ in its current incarnation is not much older than MAG is, and I want to think we are doing good work, and with our membership numbers fast approaching 90 financial members and gaining momentum I guess that's indicative that we are gaining more support.....

Being placed on the MSAC has had some (the lesser informed) people say I sold out...
There is no way to please em all mate, trust me I gave up trying and got on with ensuring our members get the full story as much as I possibly can and we created the BRONZ Federation to try unite the nationwide splinter groups.