Three Strikes Protest Run, 5 May

[flyingcrocodile46]

I used to be involved in the kids fundraising and it was always the same people who did all the work, some like doing it, others feel obligated to do it and some let the others do it. I've watched BRONZ and MAG from the sidelines and just can't get excited about meetings, committtees and protesting.( I do enough of that at the office).
I did however go to Welly for the 09 protest...and the meeting at the Yacht Club with Nick......then I lost interest.....jeez it hard being middle aged and middle New Zealand....

Heh! Another hammer hand hits the nail home. I went too. Just fucked up and overshot before I realised and had to ride all the way back from Dunedin to get there in time

[bogan]

Your response evidences that you have a lot to offer bikers as a active proponent. Why not merge with and motivate (but with balance) BRONZ. It is most often personalities behind failures to align pathways to principal objectives (especially when so many goals are shared). Neither you nor Les (or Mark for that matter) appear to be the sorts who would easily let such differences prevent a positive outcome.

you mean me individually, or a 'patchover'? Either way I think there is more to be gained by sticking with MAG.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Would it be fair to say (honest question here) that mags approach to action from here on in will be IT based?
I ask this because most (if not all) the ''doers'' are no longer within.
There are some very smart brain types as in yourself John/Dom/Steve/Neil etc but you guys are not really the ''get out there and fuck 'em up'' type eh? surely even you would agree with that John?

You have raised a very good point. I personally do not think that it is a good idea for committee members (especially the top dogs) to have an active profile online. There is a place for these forums as a tool for polls as to firming up on goal selections (from a pre-selected list of options) and monitoring for ideas for committe members to consider and discuss OFFLINE but otherwise I see reliance on forums such as this for direction and discussion as something to be considered with a grain or two of salt. There are far too few people who have far too much to say for themselves (yes me too at times) and a real lack of balance results. The average biker is not well represented by the views and opinions of a few overly vocal well intentioned (but self important) individuals.

[flyingcrocodile46]

you mean me individually, or a 'patchover'? Either way I think there is more to be gained by sticking with MAG.

I meant you individually (and MAG as a collective) as well. I disagree with your choice but respect that it is yours to make.

I will end my contribution now as I have said all I have to say on the matter and see no sense in debating the issue further in support of my views as I have no desire to push my own barrow. If the load has merit others will push it along a pace or two... or not.

There are already far too many people pushing their own barrows here.

[Gearup]

You have raised a very good point. I personally do not think that it is a good idea for committee members (especially the top dogs) to have an active profile online. There is a place for these forums as a tool for polls as to firming up on goal selections (from a pre-selected list of options) and monitoring for ideas for committe members to consider and discuss OFFLINE but otherwise I see reliance on forums such as this for direction and discussion as something to be considered with a grain or two of salt. There are far too few people who have far too much to say for themselves (yes me too at times) and a real lack of balance results. The average biker is not well represented by the views and opinions of a few overly vocal well intentioned (but self important) individuals.

In the absence of direction from a committee and the clarification of the some issues, which has happened here, then the forum does represent the average biker.

Members are also customers so it's vital for them to have some type of feedback medium other than physical meetings.

They can read and they can also have their say if they want to. Some may just not choose to be so vocal as the ones who do it often here.

[roadrage]

The publictransport is a complete mess, when i used to go by train i used to stand on one foot because there was no space besides the fact having to chagea train and a bus.I support this and want to let the goverment know: the harder they try to get us off our bikes the harder we shall hold on:

[Smifffy]

Loving all of the publicity this protest generated.

[theseekerfinds]

as a society (of riders) I believe some of us have the right to sit back while others do "all the work" just as some of us have the right to step up and do all the fundraising and others have the right to make suggestions that they need others to pursue and fulfill.. we are all great at something.. none great at everything..

Too many on this thread seem to think that everyone needs to do something, at worst everything, or that if you do nothing your are providing nothing.

To many people those that do nothing provide the catalyst to make others do lots, or more.. to some the suggestions put forward by others provide drive and inspiration to complete those suggestions and bring them to fruition.. it seems like many of the posts on this thread belong in a playground amongst 5 year olds, while others are positive and subscribe to and suggest change and put forward great ways to achieve the change necessary..

but it is a bit rich thinking that just because someone can suggest great things that they are the same people who can, and should, do everything to turn those great suggestions into reality, just as it is a bit rich to think that by simply telling someone they are expected to put in some effort that they have told the right person, the person who actually puts in effort, that they need them to put in effort when actually they have told the person who actually does nothing..

sure we need action, sure we need suggestions..

but in reality it's a lot more like running a country as opposed to running a company. There are tens of thousands of bikers in NZ, all with differing opinions, all with different bikes, all wanting different things from those they align themselves with and those organisations they join.. just as political parties pick and choose who they represent and then work to represent their catchment of voters so it should be seen to be with our bikers support organisations.. they work for the betterment of all riders but not necessarily working together all the time (in the public domain at any rate), they work in the same general direction but not necessarily doing the same things.. they have to put up with those who support one organisation slagging off the ideas of those who support the other organisation, one organisation must put up with being slagged off by the other organisation and so it goes.. but saying just because you did nothing the whole thing went belly up is just shit, it takes more than a few people simply not doing something to bring about the downfall of a great suggestion.. perhaps there was just no plan to get the suggestion to fruition? the suggestion needs to be put to the right people, who need to engage the right people to get it started, who need to engage the right people to carry it through, who need to engage the right people to see the completion, who need to know the right audience to perform in front of, who need to be the actual decision makers and not just those who work for the decision makers..

and as an aside businesses fail because of lack of planning and contingencies, there is no other reason, everything falls under planning and contingencies.. money and customers do not make a business successful, they simply sustain it, but they do not make it, both will always come and go, which a successful business will have planned for and when one is in short supply they will have plans in place to access more of the other..

it just seems like a lot of folks on here expect that because things are suggested they will automatically occur, that someone will pick up the idea and see it through, when what really needs to occur is serious planning not just schoolyard talk.. as the old adage goes "talk is cheap" but the real truth is "failing to plan is planning to fail"..
this is not directed at anyone in particular, more a response to the posts that I have read decrying one group at the expense of another and decrying one's ideas at the expense of another.. we are all, after all, bikers, and we should put our suggestions to those who would make use of them rather than to those who would decry them as useless because no suggestion is useless, it is just not acted upon..

sorry I know I rave on but I love riding and I love talking to those who ride, sometimes it's just that what we say should be said to someone else because the one we choose to speak to isn't the right person to make that suggestion eventually see the light of day, rather they undermine what we say in their support of other opinions put forward when both opinions are valid and full of merit..

I've raved on enough and need a break

[Berries]

my10c worth

I think you'll find that was a dollars worth.

[StoneY]

I think you'll find that was a dollars worth.

Not just a dollar mate, that was fuckin brilliant and bang on the money.
Inspirational even.

Now that's $0.02

[oneofsix]

Not just a dollar mate, that was fuckin brilliant and bang on the money.
Inspirational even.

Now that's $0.02

Agreed but theseekerfinds has raised a point for MAG, BRONZ and all the other groups to answer.

How do we get the message to the right people to get some action?

This is a once in triannual opportunity, being election year, to let the politicians know the this community with all its factions isn't a push over and easy money supply. Politicians, especially in election year, respond to pressure groups. As Stoney keeps reminding us he organised the Bikhoi before BRONZ Wgtn was resurrected and at short notice but he did have a good subject to focus on. This year we need a similar ride but it doesn't have to be as big, just a reminder we are still here.
As stated many posts ago I'm not am organiser, sorry.
well that's my $0.02

Quote that theseekerfinds post reminded me of but not sure where from;
"Those also serve who just stand and wait."

[bogan]

All good thoughts theseekerfinds, I'm just quoting onofsix cos he summarized it well.

How do we get the message to the right people to get some action?

I think before that, we need to figure out what the right message is, and who the right people are.

Our principal/plan etc is to provide/collaborate members with the resources to get action done. This is also a point of difference from the other organizations. In my mind, there's no reason why a thinker can't suggest a good idea, have a planner implement the plan, some managers sort routes/venues, some doers to ride lead and TEC etc, and a bunch of supporters to join in. In practice, I'm not sure there are enough of those types of people around to pull it off.

[StoneY]

In practice, I'm not sure there are enough of those types of people around to pull it off.

And there lies the kicker Bogan.

Its more than just the 'enough type of people around' factor, because, simply put....the type of people who have these skills also have a job, career, mortgage, bikes to maintain and ride, kids in school, mum in hospital.............. they have a life in other words and want to keep it at the quality they enjoy, and many just cant make those sacrifices in reality. Especially not mid week.

Not many people know this but the amount of work I put into BIKEOI cost me big time at many personal levels, despite how many people also helped with the load.
It was largely the catalyst to ending my marriage (was already in trouble with that but it definitely lead to the final straw landing on a shaky camel)
While my employer supported what we were doing, the amount of time I spent on that event strained the workplace relationship beyond repair.

A few of my fellow coordinators also felt these strains in their personal worlds as well. I tip my hat to all of them for again picking up and sharing the load for the Feb 2010 event, knowing what we had already paid in October/November 09.

honestly... had I known what that event would cost me I may never have followed through on it as passionately as I did.

It's never as simple as saying 'lets go protest' and to get the sort of traction we look for on these issue's.
It takes a massive amount of coordination, time, publicity, and people that have the ability to work together and make it happen.
You also need ONE issue, (yep just ONE) and it needs to be one that gets everyone REAL pissed off, like a potential 500$ raise in the cost of riding your bike.......

Never an easy task my friend.

I still say, kudos to you guys for making the attempt but you should have stuck to only one point and the ACC issue is long dead now as far as our energy goes.......

[Eyegasm]

as a society (of riders) I believe some of us have the right to sit back while others do "all the work"

Snip

I've raved on enough and need a break

Dude... Are you sure you are from the nui?
Obviously schooled outside of the valley!

[DEVVIL]

http://www.coldduckrally.com/Zumwohl.aspx