40 demerits is it worth it?

[Redstar]

went to New plymouth on Friday last got a ticket for speeding
dam it. now this is my story.
doing 105 ish down a big steep hill just before the awakino gorge some place starting with M but anyway this hill three lanes down hill anyway saw the 50klms temp for road works but rounded a gentle right and pinged at 81 klms not more than 100m in the zone. $300 plus 40 merit points.
I was real nice to the man but he hit me anyway.
so I recon I was real hard done by this time but is it worth writing to the police and point out the sillyness of it all?
Has anyone here ever got a let off for writing in to the police? if so how did you do it? were you greasing or firm whats the secret?
of shall I just pay up and move on? is a court hearing expensive and how much? If there are any traffic Police listening
F**K UP frankly

[MikeL]

Here's my suggestion:
Write a polite, conciliatory letter pointing out the facts as you have outlined them, and asking for the ticket to be withdrawn because of the circumstances (unexpected roadworks, slowing down, only 100m into the zone etc.) Your letter will be ignored and they will send you a reminder notice. Write again, referring to your first letter (attach a copy) and say that you quite understand that they have been too busy to give your letter the consideration it undoubtedly deserves (the subtle irony will be lost on them but it will make you feel superior). Ask for some specific information, e.g. what the tolerance is when slowing down from 100 to 50km/hr, or whether you are expected to decelerate instantaneously the moment you pass the50 km/h sign. As long as your sarcasm it subtle it will also be lost on them. Finish your letter by expressing the confident expectation that you will hear from them soon, and that they will have given serious thought to your request. Since you have asked a specific question (two would be better) they may well feel obliged to reply. This will require the expenditure of mental energy and the application of intelligence and may therefore fall into the "too hard" category. It may be easier for them to send you a form letter withdrawing the ticket.
No guarantee it will work (especially if you address the letter to "You f***ing b*stards") but worth a try.
Good luck!

[Racey Rider]

Good job MikeL!
Makes me want to write that letter myself,, and I haven't even got a ticket!

Temp speed road signs are undermined I reck'n, by The road crews that seem to leave them up a lot longer than necessary (to cover their liablity 110%), so we all get used to not slowing down the full amount until we can see the hazard.

[Sharkey]

I agree RR. There is a new bridge going over Puhinui Rd, connecting the Sth western Mway with Roscommon Rd. For months now there has been Temp 50 signs out, but little in the way of work. It is exceptionally frustrating, because the cops have targeted it as easy pickings. I have seen too many people pulled over to speed there (much) myself, but that's not the point. The lower limit is to provide a safe working environment for contractors (as a contractor I like this), but I noone is working!?!?! It simply makes the whole thing more unsafe.

Roading contractors need to sort themselves out.

[MikeL]

Sharkey, that temporary 50 k zone at the Puhinui interchange is an excellent example of the contempt that those in positions of authority have for road users, as well as the lack of common sense that I have written about elsewhere. I use that road frequently, and for the last 6 weeks at least I have seen absolutely no evidence of continuing work that would justify the 50 k limit. The majority of motorists ignore it, but as you say they risk a ticket. If I get one I will certainly challenge it. It almost looks like a deliberate provocation to disobey the law (easy revenue-gathering!) A few minutes with a video camera by the roadside would prove the point. I did a similar exercise when I got a ticket last year for riding in the emergency stopping strip on the southern motorway, when the traffic was stopped. Arguing that "everybody does it" might seem pointless when there is a clear breach of the law, but in fact it does emphasize the unfairness of random or selective enforcement of victimless crimes, and if enough people object it might eventually cause a change of attitude. At the very least by challenging the infringement you put them to some inconvenience in having to reply and deal with it. Make them earn their money, the b*stards!

[Jackrat]

Red,In the situation you have described I would definately do as Mike sujests.If you have no luck there,Then take it to court,(THEY HATE THAT) First Time up use the duty solicitor to enter a no plea,
(They hate that too).This will give you time to apply for legal aid,(They hate that even more)So far this should cost you nothing,
When you go to court for the second Time enter,No plea again and demand full disclosure of all evidence by the cop involed,By the way you should by this time have applyed to have the case heard in your local court as well,(make em, work for it.)This is your right so use it.On your third court date you will have all the evidence and detailed statment from the copper involved.You and your legal aid rep, can now argue every point of evidence,Things to look for in the cops statment is time of offence,If the cop has not stated the offence took place at appoximately a time,but rather stated a set time,you can challenge his time keeping.
This may sound like a small thing but it works, as the cop is not allowed to state a set time,His speed gun evidence is only a very small part of the picture,Challange his perseption of weather conditions,Challange the positioning of the road signs.
If you have even a half assed lawyer they will know these things
already.
Mate it may sound a bit far fetched but,I recevied training from the Australian Fedrel Police along with NIRTC,The fore most investigation and research training school in Australasia.
If you can draw it out an screw them around enough they will give it up as the costs to them are to high.If by chance you end up with a crap lawyer you can sack him in court and get yet another continuance.(They hate that more than anything)but it is your right so use it.If you do wish to do this,do so as soon as you are called to the bench,You do not have to give reason even if the Judge asks for it,Just be polite is all.If you play your cards right you will have the cop having to travel to your local court,not his,You won,t pay a thing in lawyers fees,You will cause the cop to write out his statement in triplicate along with any evidence he may have.Your appearance in court costs the state around $600 a time and you can only ever be made to pay a very small amount of that if you do lose.And then if they don,t get sick of being messed about,as a last resort you plea (no contest) just to let them know they have been played.Remember the fine can,t go up
so what do you have to lose??

[matthewt]

What time of the day were you pinged ??

I've heard of cases where the temporary restriction was only when road crews were actually working and people done after-hours have managed to get off.

Worth a try.

[jrandom]

Originally posted by MikeL
I did a similar exercise when I got a ticket last year for riding in the emergency stopping strip on the southern motorway, when the traffic was stopped

Right on bro. If we get off our lazy arses and fight the stupidity and revenue-gathering, who knows, it could make a difference. I should have done the same when *I* got a ticket for using the emergency strip to get past stopped traffic.

The only reason I got that ticket was because using the strip enabled me to cruise happily at a decent speed past the traffic and I didn't notice the cop up ahead... now I just filter everywhere in lane 2A with my spidey sense on full alert. Using the strip *has* to be safer but will they ever acknowledge that... noooooo...

[Big Dog]

According to the road code posted speed limits are to be adhered to from the sign post to the next posted limit. technically they can do you if you pass the sign above the new limit. However with temporay sign you are required to slow to the posted limit as early as is safe to do so, as it is not credible that every person who puts out the roadsigns will have a degree in civil engineering. Hell some of the people I have seen putting them out look like they would have trouble spelling their own name.

I could be wrong but look it up, but that was on my h/t test and that was only 4-5 years ago.

[wkid_one]

Pay up - you were caught fair and square.

In Australia you get DOUBLE demerit points if caught speeding in a temporary speed zone due to construction etc - and NZ is looking in to this also - you have a fat chance of getting off this given the current focus on this.

If it was clearly sign posted as you indicate it was - you are probably fucked.

As for fighting it is caught - huge fucken rigmaroll and time for something you may not get off - too many ifs and buts.

These days - I know of very few people who have got off of tickets - and unless they have made a blatent mistake (like written bicycle on your ticket) - you won't get off. 

The cop will just say he ticketed 20 other people that day for the same offence and none of them got off.

This whinging about tickets is getting old hat - it is not like they are hiding the speed limits from us - we know the rules, we see the signs, we choose to speed...don't whinge when you get caught.  In the words of Jack - boooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaring - we always appear to be standing on the same soapbox

[SPman]

Originally posted by wkid_one
Pay up - you were caught fair and square.

Bullshit! Theres no such thing as being caught fair and square!

In Australia you get DOUBLE demerit points if caught speeding in a temporary speed zone due to construction etc - and NZ is looking in to this also - you have a fat chance of getting off this given the current focus on this.

So what. We all know how fukt aussie road rules generally are - except for the LTSA who slavishly follow everything Vicroads do!

 

As for fighting it is caught - huge fucken rigmaroll and time for something you may not get off - too many ifs and buts.

Its NEVER a waste of time fighting bullshit laws or enforcement methods - Kiwis tend to roll over and take it up the arse far to damn often!

 

The cop will just say he ticketed 20 other people that day for the same offence and none of them got off.

So what!

This whinging about tickets is getting old hat - it is not like they are hiding the speed limits from us - we know the rules, we see the signs, we choose to speed...don't whinge when you get caught.  In the words of Jack - boooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaring - we always appear to be standing on the same soapbox

Sounds just like a politician! 

[marty]

ask for full disclosure, don't ask for for anything specific, just full disclosure.

included should be:

the officer's copy of the ticket (front and rear)

a copy of the stalker/laser log book for the day

a copy of the patrol car speedo calibration

you can ask for the operation/training manual for the stalker/laser (makes good reading if nothing else)

you won't get the stalker wiring digrams, case law has deemed that is sensitive to the manufacturer, and no amount of asking for it will get it.

once you've got that, you can take the stuff apart, and see if there's any technical defence. tell me when you have, and if you want i'll have a look at it

[130wide]

I've gotten off 3 tickets out of 7 by writing a letter. That's only writing once and not the way MikeL has explain, mikes way, I would probably got me off another 1 or 2.
Try the letter , if all else fails, next time do a runner, 50/50 chance no demittes and you don't have to write a letter.

[Jackrat]

Do a runner??
You would be amazed how fast it is to see and remember a plate if you have been trained to do so.
Just take it to court if the letter fails,You can drag it out for over a year no sweat,an just because the cop booked others for the same thing means nothing,I mean where are they anyway,have any of the sheep challenged the ticket.
Remember the cost can,t go up and you don,t lose your points until found guilty,If you are already short on the points thing draging it out may just save your licence.Then if you lose you can just pay it off at ten bucks aweek for however long.Remember it is your right to challange these things,an don,t let some EX biker from wellington say other wise.
And Wicked would you mind not quoting me on unrelated subjects.
The man is not whinging he is seeking advice.

[Lou Girardin]

When you write to the cops, ask the purpose of the speed restriction. If it was for new seal, there's a time limit that the signs may be up. If it was for another purpose, check if it tallies with the situation at the time, eg. were works actually going on.
Don't just accept it and be another Governmentally sodomised cash machine.
Lou