General bitch (oops, I mean discussion) about bikers thread

[skippa1]

Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't want to offer specific advice re any particular situation or crash - because he wasn't there and can't know what might have been done as an alternative to achieve a better outcome?

What a crock of shit. Doesnt stop him making assumptions and hurling off hand comments.(or is that hand on?) If that is the real reason he doesnt offer real advice, why does he then feel so qualified to pass judgement?

I say bring on the video too. Be great to see what we are all meant to be doing.....

[avgas]

Dear Katman

Shit Happens, wipe your arse, keep going.

Yours Sincerely
The Real World

You look fake to me

[willytheekid]

Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't want to offer specific advice re any particular situation or crash - because he wasn't there and can't know what might have been done as an alternative to achieve a better outcome?

So he can't offer advice etc...but he can repeatedly point the finger and more often than not "heartlessly" blame riders under the exact same conditions??

[MSTRS:Me]

Bullshit...
In every crash, someone or something, is responsible. And if a biker was involved, it is entirely reasonable to put some of the blame on them.
KM may be OTT, but his contention that a bike-involved crash can always be avoided if the rider was ... (more aware of their surroundings, for instance) is not unreasonable.

[skippa1]

Bullshit...
In every crash, someone or something, is responsible. And if a biker was involved, it is entirely reasonable to put some of the blame on them.
KM may be OTT, but his contention that a bike-involved crash can always be avoided if the rider was ... (more aware of their surroundings, for instance) is not unreasonable.

What a revelation lordy lordy
We all know that. If you leave it parked in the garage, it wont crash....however comments like "Why do so many see motorcycles as disposable toys?" is just tosser talk. I havent actually met anyone ever with that attitude about their bike. No one would disagree that if you take the human element out of the equation and there will be no accident. I cant understand why it has to be repeadedly expressed in an abusive manner as that message will never actually save one life.

[ducatilover]

If you break a traffic regulation that you didn't know existed, you may still get a ticket for it.
In other words - do dumb shit, and there's often a price to be paid.
A 'bollocking' from KM is tame compared to some of the alternatives.
Some on here will give you long and involved advice on what you should do or have done.
KM will call you a cock for overstepping your experience/ability or for ignoring commonsense.
Both have their place in the learning curve that is motorcycling.

MSTRS is correct, I'd rather listen to Katman and be a naive twat (And subconsciously heed his advice) then carry on riding uncomfortably and probably too tense. I've ridden with MSTRS before and he's a safe rider, I'd happily follow (attempt to) his bike around in the knowledge that he isn't going to do anything stupid.

Having all of 3 days riding experience I am already bloody lucky not to have had an accident. Actually blog number 2 will be brewing for the end of the week on the stupid blunders I have somehow survived so far without incident.

The thing is at the moment I don't know what my entry speed should be for corners - and I am learning in wet and windy conditions. I don't know how gingerly I should be using my road bike when some loverly bloke decides to dig up the road. I didn't know that the helmet the brother in-law gave me would be impossible to see out of at night. I never considered how much driving rain in your face could slow your mental processes down when it has been happening for nearly an hour. Or as this morning that when you breath out heavilly having just negotiated a corner really nicely that it will completely fog up your visor.

So when you sit up there on your high horse and pass judgement on people that havn't been on the road long and have an accident, that what would have been with your experience avoidable. Sod Off.

Try finding a riding mentor, I won't tell you you're a knob etc, I started off by myself and I've fucked it up Finding someone experienced and safe to ride with will help a huge amount, plus you'll enjoy it more!

[MSTRS:Me]

... that message will never actually save one life.

Read some of the posts from people who might have agreed with that...before taking it on board???

MSTRS is correct, I'd rather listen to Katman and be a naive twat (And subconsciously heed his advice) then carry on riding uncomfortably and probably too tense. I've ridden with MSTRS before and he's a safe rider, I'd happily follow (attempt to) his bike around in the knowledge that he isn't going to do anything stupid.

Thanks for your faith, but I'm no more perfect that the next rider. I do what I can to 'do the biz', but I'm also well aware that everytime I ride, something could happen that catches me out. Including me doing something stupid.

[Katman]

but I'm also well aware that everytime I ride, something could happen that catches me out. Including me doing something stupid.

And in fact, being aware of it actually makes it less likely to happen.

[skippa1]

Read some of the posts from people who might have agreed with that...before taking it on board???

I dont even know what you mean by that.....sounds like some sort of sweeping assumption with no basis in fact.....

[MSTRS:Me]

And in fact, being aware of it actually makes it less likely to happen.

Of course. I also never (well - seldom) lose sight of the fact that it can happen.

Of course, as some wit mentioned...not if my bike stays parked in the shed

I dont even know what you mean by that.....sounds like some sort of sweeping assumption with no basis in fact.....

I asked you if you have read (sound it out as 'red') posts from others who say they actually tried KM's message and lo! they met a situation that would have cost them in some negative way if they'd ridden as normal (for them).

[Grubber]

Bullshit...
In every crash, someone or something, is responsible. And if a biker was involved, it is entirely reasonable to put some of the blame on them.
KM may be OTT, but his contention that a bike-involved crash can always be avoided if the rider was ... (more aware of their surroundings, for instance) is not unreasonable.

I say bullshit to that.
If i come round a bend and a local farmer drives his tractor out on the road right in front of me, then i'm dead and it's not my fault, no matter how you wanna look at it.
Some kind of logic here would be real good.
Try and at least be realistic about this aye!
Oh and by the way, it is not entirely reasonable to put the blame onto the biker in every damn instance. Try the farmer on his tractor in this case.
Thats like saying, when a fella gets shot, it's his fault for allowing the shooter to buy the gun, when he doesn't even know him.
Like the rape victim that wore a miniskirt etc.
Come on, think about this for a minute.

[MSTRS:Me]

For those that may not be following the 'other' thread...

I believe that 99% of motorcycle accidents fall into one (or more) of three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity.

We can do plenty to address all three of those categories.

...that's pretty simple, eh? And because, like me, KM is selfish and wants to continue riding without further curbs from tptb, he rightly waves the big stick every time one of us fucks up.
Remove all 3 categories, and we'd have a very low crash rate indeed.

I say bullshit to that.
If i come round a bend and a local farmer drives his tractor out on the road right in front of me, then i'm dead and it's not my fault, no matter how you wanna look at it.
Some kind of logic here would be real good.
Try and at least be realistic about this aye!

Put your scenario in terms of above. If you GENUINELY don't ft into 1 or more of the 3 categories, then sux to be you picking up the 1%.

[skippa1]

I asked you if you have read (sound it out as 'red') (are you another patronising wanker?)posts from others who say they actually tried KM's message and lo! they met a situation that would have cost them in some negative way if they'd ridden as normal (for them).

Katman doesnt have a message. Dont you get it? He is saying that every accident is avoidable which is only true if you take the human element out of it. That is fact as no person is infalable. So what is the message?Dont ride your bike? Dont buy a bike? Or should it just be flipant or abusive comments about trying to achieve an accident free society?

[MSTRS:Me]

Jesus wept! Pull your head out of whatever place you have stuck it.

[oneofsix]

Katman doesnt have a message. Dont you get it? He is saying that every accident is avoidable which is only true if you take the human element out of it. That is fact as no person is infalable. So what is the message?Dont ride your bike? Dont buy a bike? Or should it just be flipant or abusive comments about trying to achieve an accident free society?

Did you see his three categories. Inexperience, inattention or stupidity. Inexperience can only be addressed by experience, and how do you get that? It can only be mitigated by advice and training.
Inattention can have many causes and as it is separate from stupidity we can leave out causes like trying to text whilst riding. Sometimes the thing that is distracting is more deadly than the accident it causes. But as we are humans sometimes something small can cause inattention to something deadly, a sudden sharp pain making you let go for instance.
Stupidity, now this is the one I suspect most of his supporters think his message is about. This is the one that is most addressable.
He left out other road users and road conditions even though these feature in any SCU investigation and any insurance claim so must be important factors > 1%