Broadband set-up - Wireless? Wired? How?

[Ragingrob]

Hey guys,

Long time no chat, I've been in a winter wonderland missing my old bike but having fun on snowmobiles - completely differently style of weight transfer!!

Anyway, have found a place in Auckland finally to move into etc etc and the first thing I need to do is sort out the internet....

My room and lounge is actually separate from the main house (a kind of granny flat setup), however I obviously want to use the same internet that we are all paying for (a good 60gb plan with unlimited use between 1am-7am). The people moving out had a dual router setup where they just bounced the wireless signal twice till it reached their area, although they said it was pretty slow-going and would fade in and out. So I'm after knowledge on options I have in setting this up for myself...

Can anybody help with these options, or others??

1) Repeat what they did. Buy a good wireless router and bounce the signal from the house. What router would you suggest? How exactly does it pick up a wireless signal and boost it? I have an Apple Airport Express, would this work for any good use?

2) Hardwire it up. Grab a 50m ethernet cable, plug from house router, wire outside, through garden and follow other cables into room... And then straight into my computer? Or a router, which could then produce wireless along with other cables?

Or....???

I'm assuming hardwiring would give the best performance so am quite interested in that but unsure how hard it would all be... and don't quite know how bridging etc works if I was going to use a router of my own...

Any help much appreciated!!

And yes I need to buy a new bike... once I earn back my travel expenditure

[Gremlin]

How far apart are the buildings? Yes... a cable is going to be the most reliable, assuming it is protected.

Generally, the maximum range for wireless is 100m, depending on matter the signal has to pass through. You can get high gain antennas etc. Remember, you cannot plug two modems into the same phone line.

[bogan]

We have a 450m 802.11n link to another flat, speed/latency is all good, a few outages but I think its people at the other flat knocking out cables etc. The links are power over ethernet so only need the one cable to run outside, good bit of kit, but don't think they were cheap. Can't remember where they were purchased from, can probably find out if you want?

[spajohn]

Remember the speed of your DSL or Cable is going to be your bottle neck...if you are getting 5-10mb from your broadband having theoretical speeds of 50mb to 1000mb up to your DSL router makes little difference. However if you are wanting to transfer data between computers in the main house and the sleep out that is a different story.

Also good to remember that 802.11n wireless has a longer range than 802.11g. Do you know what the previous folks had? If they were having drop outs using 'n' running wiring may be the best option, if they only had 'g', maybe you don't need to run any wire - being that wireless is so susceptible to your local environment I would suggest testing the range by putting your Apple in the house and checking what it's signal is like out to the sleep out. Once you know that you can figure out if you need to buy a different base station with better range, run a wire, etc.

I love the Apple gear as the software does a good job of configuring itself for dual routers etc. Going forward there is no need to replace the Express as it will either be used solely or in addition to a base station, and obviously good for streaming music to your stereo. I'm not sure of the benefit of extending your wireless network in this instance though since if you have range from the house to the granny flat why would you need to extend it further than that? However if you need to wire it to get the signal there, then you certainly will need two devices.

Buying two standard routers gets tricky as you then have multiple DHCP servers that may conflict by default. You can make them work but the simplest, although pricey, option is to buy an Apple Extreme base station to work with your Express. Look for refurb kit from the Apple store if you go that way to save some $.

There are so many options with how you can set this up so if you still are stuck after the collective wisdom of KB's kicks in feel free to drop me a PM.

[Ragingrob]

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys, now I've gotta try and get my head around some of this stuff...

Remember the speed of your DSL or Cable is going to be your bottle neck...if you are getting 5-10mb from your broadband having theoretical speeds of 50mb to 1000mb up to your DSL router makes little difference. However if you are wanting to transfer data between computers in the main house and the sleep out that is a different story.

Also good to remember that 802.11n wireless has a longer range than 802.11g. Do you know what the previous folks had? If they were having drop outs using 'n' running wiring may be the best option, if they only had 'g', maybe you don't need to run any wire - being that wireless is so susceptible to your local environment I would suggest testing the range by putting your Apple in the house and checking what it's signal is like out to the sleep out. Once you know that you can figure out if you need to buy a different base station with better range, run a wire, etc.

I love the Apple gear as the software does a good job of configuring itself for dual routers etc. Going forward there is no need to replace the Express as it will either be used solely or in addition to a base station, and obviously good for streaming music to your stereo. I'm not sure of the benefit of extending your wireless network in this instance though since if you have range from the house to the granny flat why would you need to extend it further than that? However if you need to wire it to get the signal there, then you certainly will need two devices.

Buying two standard routers gets tricky as you then have multiple DHCP servers that may conflict by default. You can make them work but the simplest, although pricey, option is to buy an Apple Extreme base station to work with your Express. Look for refurb kit from the Apple store if you go that way to save some $.

There are so many options with how you can set this up so if you still are stuck after the collective wisdom of KB's kicks in feel free to drop me a PM.

Ok... So pretty much, the first thing I should do is test the wireless purely by using the existing router along with my Airport Express. I've never actually used the Express before, but do I set it up by plugging it into a wall nearby the original router inside the main house, plugging an ethernet cable into it from the router, and then heading to the flat and seeing if my Macbook picks up the signal directly from the Express with any difficulty?

In terms of environment, between the computer room in main house and the granny flat there would be a total of 3 walls and approx 20-30m in a straight line...

Oh and all I want is to be using the internet, nothing between computers, and at the fastest speed possible!

[Gremlin]

I can't comment on the Apple stuff, used it to the barest minimum.

You can use two modems/routers, but only one has the PPPoA credentials and cable to the phone line (plus associated filters). DHCP is easy, just turn the functionality off on one of them.

With 802.11n, remember it isn't industry standard yet, and often requires that all equipment is of the same brand etc, otherwise it will run in g mode. The other option would be to run a WLAN bridge, but as always, wireless is not as reliable/dead certain compared to cable.

If I was in your position, I would be using a laptop (not sure if yours is desktop or laptop), have the wireless broadcasting, connect, and then walk around checking reception. Position of the aerials on the device creating the wireless signal is important. I've seen almost complete loss of signal 10-20m from the source, in the same house, going upstairs...

If the wireless is dropping out, it can also be a combination of factors around the wireless drivers, and I've generally found that laptop wireless performs better than desktop wireless.

[spajohn]

... first thing I should do is test the wireless purely by using the existing router along with my Airport Express.

Does your existing router have wireless? Are you using a laptop?

As Gremlin suggests what you need to do is find out what the wireless signal is like. If the existing doesn't have wireless, yes then connect your Apple Express to it, and run the setup using the software on your computer. Naturally you need to definitely be within range of it, so suggest doing this up in the house to begin with.

[YellowDog]

By far the best value stuff I have seen that actually works simply and seamlessly is the Linksys stuff.

It has an automatic one button set up, so once you have set upo abd secured the primary Wireless Router, you can set up and daisy chain as many additional wireless units as you need.

It works as one Network and allows you to roam around seamlessly.

Take a look at the Linksys website: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/ANZ/en/home

As cheaps as chips and you don't need to be a CNE to set it up

[The Stranger:Me]

If you're not all that clued up on the intricacies of wireless routers why not consider a couple of home plug type powerline adaptors.
Pretty much just plug and play - so long as you are all on the same meter.

[Ragingrob]

I can't comment on the Apple stuff, used it to the barest minimum.

You can use two modems/routers, but only one has the PPPoA credentials and cable to the phone line (plus associated filters). DHCP is easy, just turn the functionality off on one of them.

With 802.11n, remember it isn't industry standard yet, and often requires that all equipment is of the same brand etc, otherwise it will run in g mode. The other option would be to run a WLAN bridge, but as always, wireless is not as reliable/dead certain compared to cable.

If I was in your position, I would be using a laptop (not sure if yours is desktop or laptop), have the wireless broadcasting, connect, and then walk around checking reception. Position of the aerials on the device creating the wireless signal is important. I've seen almost complete loss of signal 10-20m from the source, in the same house, going upstairs...

If the wireless is dropping out, it can also be a combination of factors around the wireless drivers, and I've generally found that laptop wireless performs better than desktop wireless.

Yup got a laptop, sounds a definite start to see how far the existing modem reaches.

Does your existing router have wireless? Are you using a laptop?

As Gremlin suggests what you need to do is find out what the wireless signal is like. If the existing doesn't have wireless, yes then connect your Apple Express to it, and run the setup using the software on your computer. Naturally you need to definitely be within range of it, so suggest doing this up in the house to begin with.

I assume the router has wireless but it's possible that it doesn't. And yup I'm using a laptop. If the existing modem does have wireless, can I use the Express as a pick up and booster from somewhere else in the house?

By far the best value stuff I have seen that actually works simply and seamlessly is the Linksys stuff.

It has an automatic one button set up, so once you have set upo abd secured the primary Wireless Router, you can set up and daisy chain as many additional wireless units as you need.

It works as one Network and allows you to roam around seamlessly.

Take a look at the Linksys website: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/ANZ/en/home

As cheaps as chips and you don't need to be a CNE to set it up

Cheers will have a look as an option!



Yeah, I actually move in next Saturday, just want the internet to be one of the first things I sort out. So right now I'm unsure of the exact setup from inside the house, all I know is that the people living where I'll be have a wireless router in the room just boosting a signal somehow, but apparently it's still not the best...

How would I go about wiring it up...? Is that where I'd be just connecting the existing router to one I buy in my room and turning the DHCP off kinda thing??

[Gremlin]

Pretty much just plug and play - so long as you are all on the same meter.

I've used very few, but I believe its on the same circuit, ie, no switch board in the way? I could stand corrected tho.

RR:
1. Find out if the existing setup has wireless. If so, connect to it, test signal strength in areas of use.
2. If no wireless exists, add some centrally, next to the modem, unless there is some wall wiring with network ports closer to your location. Test signal strength.

One thing to watch out, having used the odd Mac (literally, a handful in 5+ years), is that it seemed incompatible with some types of encryption on the wireless... so... yeah... don't jump to conclusions too quickly.

[SMOKEU]

I wouldn't bother with wireless. I've used it before and in my experiences it's as reliable as a policians promise at the best of times, and just to get it setup properly is often as easy as figuring out the firing order of a V12 in the dark.

[The Stranger:Me]

I wouldn't bother with wireless. I've used it before and in my experiences it's as reliable as a policians promise at the best of times, and just to get it setup properly is often as easy as figuring out the firing order of a V12 in the dark.

Nothing beats wires, but wireless does have it's uses. Most of the problems with it can be traced to set up. Whilst programs like network stumbler are useful, they are still limited to wireless networks and fail to locate problems caused by say portable phones, microwave ovens or various other sources of interference.
I never set up a wireless network without a wi-spy adapter (which can pretty much locate all sources of interference) and often need backtrack to identify problems.

[Ragingrob]

Cheers for all the chat guys... As said I'll have to wait to next Saturday to see exactly the system they've got in place already.

Seems I've got some pretty awesome advice for wireless, what would my option for wired be? I would need to just run an ethernet cable from modem in house into a modem in my room and then could split it/wireless from there? Or can't you have a 2nd router in the setup... so I'd have to just run cable from inside directly to my laptop in room?

[The Stranger:Me]

Cheers for all the chat guys... As said I'll have to wait to next Saturday to see exactly the system they've got in place already.

Seems I've got some pretty awesome advice for wireless, what would my option for wired be? I would need to just run an ethernet cable from modem in house into a modem in my room and then could split it/wireless from there? Or can't you have a 2nd router in the setup... so I'd have to just run cable from inside directly to my laptop in room?

Seriously, the easiest way is to get someone who knows what they are doing to have a look at the situation.






I nominate Gremlin.