Secret abortions for under 18s? Good shit.

[Luckylegs]

Of course! Why is torture, murder, child abuse, armed robbery, bashings, drunk driving, rape, done? Because in the opinion of the perpetrator it's okay, of course!

Is this form of injustice, murder and torture okay in your opinion..?

Apparently so

[Edbear]

Murder - morally wrong in certain situations, but murder can certainly be justified morally. IE you murder the dude who murdered and raped your wife and child.

Robbery - you are poor, and you steal to feed your starving family? Not morally wrong.

Drunk Driving - idiocy...

Torture - very questionable to ever be morally right... though I guess if you had to torture a mass murderer to gain information to stop a future pre-meditated murder it becomes more iffy...

Child Abuse - is smacking abuse?

Bashings - beat up the person who put a hand on your wife?

Rape - no moral justification for this one ever... though I guess if a child molester gets raped in jail I'd perhaps turn a blind eye...

Stupid examples... but I think you get my point. Such acts aren't black and white wrong, there are all sorts of cases when certain things could become quite justified.

Except in this situation, we are talking about a specific act for a specific purpose. In my opinion, there is no justification for treating an innocent human being in this manner, regardless of the circumstances. This is the ultimate form of child abuse and there are alternatives that can care for the mother and the child, no matter how sad the situation is.

Even in the case of pregnancy by rape, the baby does not deserve to be treated in such an inhumane manner. Certainly support the victim mother, even get someone else to look after the baby if she can't handle it, but don't murder an innocent child in the most barbaric ways possible.

[avgas]

My 17 year old nephew was recently telling me about "A" who used to live around the corner from me as a child before moving....well the other weekend at a party she first went off into the bushes in back yard with this guy, then a short time later she was off with this other guy and so forth etc etc etc The list went on..... All up 8 guys in one night at this party.... when I commented about what the hell is wrong with her and where are her friends in all this, he replied "all the girls from school do it like that every weekend so why would they bother wondering where she was, and most likely they were off with other guys somewhere else anyway"

I then asked if he partook and got a very guarded and unconvincing nooooo.... He then openly admitted yes but that she and all the other girls at his school were sluts and "it's not like I'd marry a slapper like that". I then proceeded to tell him that if he made me a grand aunt before I was 40 years old I would make his life not worth living.......

Should have asked her if she was hot.

Its a sad day if they are talking about women like that.............................................. ....................................





















.................................................. .......... if they are ugly. No standards these days.

[avgas]

much prefer one that knows what to do with a knob

Very handy having a woman to open doors for you. But I prefer the hot ones you can have sex with.
When I am 80 and invalid I'll look for one that can open doors for me. Or one that can change a bed pan even.

[imdying]

don't murder an innocent child in the most barbaric ways possible.

Correct, religion does not like competition.

[The Stranger:Me]

So you're saying... the parents don't want their kids having sex.

Whoa now I am really intrigued. Please tell me what part of my post did you extrapolate to that conclusion?

As a parent of 4 (all as yet unmarried (as far as I know)) I can honestly say I'm more than happy for my kids to be having sex.
Guess what we did as youfs? This is going to come as a shock. That's right, we drank piss, took drugs and rooted. This often comes as a surprise to youf, but these things weren't invented just when you hit puberty, nor just when I hit puberty.
I'm sure my parents did the same (well at least once).

Still, I do hope they respect me and I do try to earn their respect.
Part of that (for me at least) is respecting their decisions and their right to choose their own course.
Part of being young is to rebel. This is (in my view) a normal, natural and indeed healthy process. It is a process which produces evolution in society. Without this you get the kind of situation where say aboriginal society in Australia didn't evolve (FA) over a period of 200,000 years.
Why would I wish to curtail what I see as a normal, natural process?

So go ahead, bonk your self silly if you like.

[superman]

Except in this situation, we are talking about a specific act for a specific purpose. In my opinion, there is no justification for treating an innocent human being in this manner, regardless of the circumstances. This is the ultimate form of child abuse and there are alternatives that can care for the mother and the child, no matter how sad the situation is.

Even in the case of pregnancy by rape, the baby does not deserve to be treated in such an inhumane manner. Certainly support the victim mother, even get someone else to look after the baby if she can't handle it, but don't murder an innocent child in the most barbaric ways possible.

Stop calling it a baby. You're humanising something that isn't a human. It's going to turn into a human. Does something that has no mental activity deserve the chance to have life? Well, it doesn't really matter. Could as easily say by having the child she decides later in life to not have a child she would have done had she had an abortion. Didn't that potential baby deserve a chance at life? It's a non-argument. It's as inhumane as killing a plant by aborting before the brain has formed.

[superman]

Whoa now I am really intrigued. Please tell me what part of my post did you extrapolate to that conclusion?

So go ahead, bonk your self silly if you like.

I was trying to understand that hypothetical situation you set forth. About the girl respecting the parents too much to want to tell them she got pregnant.

So the daughter feels as though she's let her mother down... by getting pregnant, and will try to avoid her mother finding out about the pregnancy and the possiblility of an abortion? I still think that would be remedied by an open relationship in which the mother has made it clear that whatever happens she's there for her daughter.

I often hear from friends who's mothers have told them if they get pregnant they'll get booted out. Which doesn't help at all. For some reason parents talk of contraception, but some seem to stop there and never talk about the possibility of a pregnancy and what to do in such a situation.

[Edbear]

Stop calling it a baby. You're humanising something that isn't a human. It's going to turn into a human. Does something that has no mental activity deserve the chance to have life? Well, it doesn't really matter. Could as easily say by having the child she decides later in life to not have a child she would have done had she had an abortion. Didn't that potential baby deserve a chance at life? It's a non-argument. It's as inhumane as killing a plant by aborting before the brain has formed.

1/ Most abortions are performed well beyond 4wks even it you accept it before then.

2/ Can't you see the hypocrisy of the Law? Why can one be charged regardless of the age of the foetus if it's not a human?

3/ On that note, it is a human by definition.

[Luckylegs]

Stop calling it a baby. You're humanising something that isn't a human. It's going to turn into a human. Does something that has no mental activity deserve the chance to have life? Well, it doesn't really matter. Could as easily say by having the child she decides later in life to not have a child she would have done had she had an abortion. Didn't that potential baby deserve a chance at life? It's a non-argument. It's as inhumane as killing a plant by aborting before the brain has formed.

Well put. And its the lack of mental activity that means i dont see the 'abuse' that ed talks about

[oneofsix]

Stop calling it a baby. You're humanising something that isn't a human. It's going to turn into a human. Does something that has no mental activity deserve the chance to have life? Well, it doesn't really matter. Could as easily say by having the child she decides later in life to not have a child she would have done had she had an abortion. Didn't that potential baby deserve a chance at life? It's a non-argument. It's as inhumane as killing a plant by aborting before the brain has formed.

Don't give a shit about the rest of this fucked up debate but it is human. The egg was human, the sperm was human, the embryo or fetus or whatever you want to call it is human. Also remember that embryo, fetus, baby, child adult are all stages in the life cycle. What you are trying to say is it is ok to terminate a human life at certain stages because certain functions haven't yet developed. How come the same rules aren't allowed to be applied when these same function cease to work? Oops new debate

[avgas]

How come the same rules aren't allowed to be applied when these same function cease to work? Oops new debate

Good point
kill all the vegies!

[avgas]

2/ Can't you see the hypocrisy of the Law? Why can one be charged regardless of the age of the foetus if it's not a human?

Not really. Name a legal document it has.

I have seen whole objects disappear in the eyes of the law simply because they have no legal documentation.

[The Stranger:Me]

I was trying to understand that hypothetical situation you set forth. About the girl respecting the parents too much to want to tell them she got pregnant.

This is the sorry of Jonny and Mary (not their real names).
Now Jonny had his license for only 1 of the last 4 years. He's a massive stoner, never home (well when he is it's only to play video games anyway), always on the piss, out with the boys etc. Nice kid, but not exactly Mr responsible - far from it actually.
Jonny gets Mary pregnant, out squirts pup number 1. Fark!! NO ONE can believe the change in Jonny. This guy is Mr straight, he's changing nappies and shit and completely head over heals for pup number 1. Works hard out saves like hell and squirts out number 2. Honestly big props to the guy, I thought he was an OK kid, but I got huge respect for him now.
Well that's as far as the story goes right now.

Lets travel into the future and we'll see where they end up.
Into the delorean.
So Jonny is soooo proud smitten that he's set this awesome example for his kids. He's always provided for them, he's taken them fishing, to sports games and been there when they rode their first motorcycle. He's one proud dad - and his girls know it. His kids love him to bits and they each have a strong mutual respect for each other.

Now here's where things go awry.
Number 1, being the rebel (as per my last post) goes to a party and well use your imagination, anyway a little while later discovers she's pregnant. Now in her heart of hearts she knows dad has always been there for her and she loves him to pieces. But for a variety of reasons decides against telling him. For a start, she doesn't want him to be disappointed (even though he wouldn't). She's embarrassed at the situation and wants as few people to know as possible, so why tell. And what harm could possibly come if dad didn't know anyway - I mean dad's infallible would he really understand so why need he even know?

Dad has (unwittingly) through his love and respect created an air of authority that he had not intention of. He was a serious stoner, speeder and generally anti social yob like the rest of us.
The irony here is that had he actually remained a yob the daughter perhaps would have been more comfortable telling him, but also possibly more likely to be in the situation in the first place.

How's that for a hypothetical situation?

On a personal note from me to you. Keep an open mind, just because you haven't experienced or can't conceive of a certain situation doesn't mean it's not a reality.

[avgas]

I often hear from friends who's mothers have told them if they get pregnant they'll get booted out. Which doesn't help at all. For some reason parents talk of contraception, but some seem to stop there and never talk about the possibility of a pregnancy and what to do in such a situation.

Yeahno.

Once again ideal family is not every family.
Would be good if family could talk things through like abortion but sometimes a completely transparent relationship with parents doesn't happen.........so having a "behind your back" thing while evil could be a necessary evil in some cases.
While I would like to think my (future) daughter could talk to me about things.......I would respect that some things she won't be about to talk to me about.
I still haven't told my dad about the time I stole his bike and hit my first 200....... prob never will. Doesn't mean to say they I have a bad relationship with him. Actually have a bloody awesome one. But do you tell your best mates or closet family EVERYTHING?