Had to use Google Translate on that one. Fair call.Originally Posted by Kickaha
Likes Jiggle in the Wiggle
Had to use Google Translate on that one. Fair call.
Hardcore Biker
Just a question, what is actually meant by celtic? (Not the football team!)
Hardcore Biker
Ngahuia has her axe to grind ... the rascists have theirs... this is some yank tosser and some try to hard tosser "artiste" stealing ideas because he hasnt got any ... yah yah ... idiots to the horizon
Don't forget to bring a towel
Nee, daar is te veel fokken kaffers terug daar.
Anarchic Wild Child
See .. that's you're problem!!!
I will stop calling you Pakeha if you stop thinking of us as different ..and stop being racist.
I challenge you name any difference between Maori, (whatever you want to call yourself) and the Blacks of South Africa (apart from phenotype) THAT I CAN NOT PUT BACK AT YOU AS SOMETHING HUMAN - a Human thing to do. We are all human beings ...
See when white people arrived here we knew what to do .. we knew how to integrate new immigrants into US. We'd done it many times before. But White people didn't - they came to take over ... now you want Maori to become YOU on your terms. We don't want Pākehā to become us on our terms ..
Now, we still want to integrate the new people into us. Many people who experience our culture for the first time find how welcoming it it is. We can still do it. In fact, we are doing it - we are sleeping with you and we are producing a new people who wil be decended from both of us .. and will see themselves as US.
If we create a new us them issues like the foreshore and sdea bed will disappear - because it will be OURS. Not Maori, not Pākehā - not white, not black .. but OURS ...
We're still waiting for you all to become US. (we will not have to wait much longer because the next generation will be US.)
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
The people who inhabited Wales, Ireland, Briton, Scotland and large chunks of frogland when the Romans got there ...Just a question, what is actually meant by celtic? (Not the football team!)
Tyson's tattoo is not particulalry Māori . sure it's on his face 'n all .. but the design itself has a lot more to do with the tribal art movement in tattooing ... the tattoo artist could have produced this without ever seeing Māori ta moko.
I don't see a problem with an imitation of it being used .. Māori have no role in this specific debate ...
And as a good friend of mine once said in a similar debate - "We do not have a copyright on bent lines."
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Forum whore
Unfortunately they are insulated from reality by living in NZ, in which case to even question the issue is racist and is all the proof they need.
SH1 rider
Celtic people includes a chunk of England in there as well.
Forum whore
What am I missing here please?
You say it will be ours. Pre the seabed and foreshore legslation wasn't it already ours?
Any benefit derived from it, be it commercial or recreational and any protections afforded it were to the benefit of all.
Isn't that a resource shared for us (as in OUR resource)
Being rusty on the specifics - what instigated the various sea bed and foreshore legislations when none existed for many many years?
iGASM, not made by Apple
I have to ask... When did the last full blooded Moari pass away?
Hasn't it been "US" for quite some time already? All those with Treaty claims lodged, They are not "US" yet I dear say that none of them are FULL blooded Maoris, they breed themselves out. Maoris these days have only a percentage of Maori in them.
As far as I am concerned, born here not born here, New Zealand is for New Zealanders. Colour of your skin should not determine what you think you are entitled to.
And plus Hone is the most racist person in NZ!!!
White Trash Pearls of Wisdom #2654 - Refering to yourself in the 3rd person: The only thing gayer, would be being caught handcuffed around a public toilet bowl, an apple stuffed in your mouth and George Michael administering an epic caneing to your exposed cheeks while Boy George documents the event on a handicam.
Anarchic Wild Child
Yeah Yeah ,. Whenit was Celtic it was called Briton ...
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
SH1 rider
The Queen's chain had been diluted to such an extent that it was no longer solid that the seabed and foreshore was 'ours' and that it couldn't be sold and privatised. The initial idea was to prevent privatisation of the seabed and foreshore. An original Maori stance was that their culture would ensure it would be held in trust for all NZerslike they aren't human or something. Well to be fair (on KB?) the ones that originally said that probably meant it but then the 'other' Maori's decided they could try blocking access and charging and other tricks.
Come warm yourself by the fire
Its funny, Tysons tattoo doesn't look unemployed.
Sorry thats racist isn't it.
how about this
Its funny, Tysons tattoo doesn't look like it is more than it is.......
Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.
Forum whore
Hardly...
Anarchic Wild Child
I can deal with this one easily (but at length) Let me consider the rest before jumping in ..
The whole row began in the Marlborough Sounds. Iwi groups there were submitting applications for aquafarms which were turned down by the local council. BUT near identical proposals from Pākehā commercial groups were beign accepted. It certainly looked racist.
So the Māori groups started tro say, well, we never sold the foreshore and seabed, so if we still own it, then we do not need permission from the white racist councils to build our marine farms. (Now, here, ownership is a very cultural specific idea and western ideas of ownership are different to Maori ideas of it .. and secondly, in different cultures you can own different things .. in British culture peopel own rivers .. and in other cultures peopel own sea ...so before anyone says repeats "you can't own the rivers and seas .. well sorry, but yes you can .. just not in our New ZEaland concept of exclusive ownership ...)
So the argument started as one of use of resources - Never about banning anyone from the beach or anything like that ... simply a group of peopel wishing to make use of a resource for their own economic wellbeing in the same way that Pākehā were .. but seeing that Pākehā were being privilged ...
So, the Maori groups took the argument throught the court system and up to the Appeals Court - which ruled that the ownership rights argument could be put to the Maori Land Court.
The Appeals Court DID NOT say that Maori owned the foreshore and seabed - it said it looked like a valid argument. If it went to the Maori Land court, whatever decision was reached would be appealed to the High Court (If Maori won, the the Crown would appeal, and v/versa) and then to the Appeals Court, which could THEN consider all the arguments that had been made and developed int he earlier process and make a decision.
The media came out and said Appeal Court says Foreshore and Seabed is Maori lad. Every Māori int he country wnet "Yahoo ..." and every Pākehā went "Oh Shit ..." BOth reactions are understandable ... and based on wrong information. But there was a typical media feeding frenzy which fueled Pākehā disquiet and Māori expectations .. all based on bullshit ..
BUT the Labour Government stepped in and said we don't trust the courts to make the right decision .. and we will pass an act saying it belongs to all New Zealanders ... The Labour Governmetn denied Māori access to the courts .. which when peopel like Don Brash claim "one law for all" . we were denied that by the Pākehā run Labour Government - one law for all was demonstrated to be a myth.
The argujkent has now got much wider than that - based on miscinceptions of both sides ...
The beaches are never under threat ... NZ Law gives ownership of land right down to the high tide mark ... the foreshore and seabed START at the high tide mark. So the beaches are actually already owned. Most of our beaches are owned by private people, or by DoC and other Govt Groups, or by City and District Council ... the owners can make you stand in the water at high tide .. because to step ont he land is to trespass.
So the issue of access to the beaches has not been affected by the foreshore and seabed legislation - access to beaches is often a dispute about crossing private land - and Pakeha landowners as well as Maori landowners limit access - especially across farms. Where public roads go to the beaches there is no issue, but once on the sand .. that is owned by the adjoining landowners, be they Maori or Pakeha (or Boer) ... and people are on the beaches at the landowner's tolerance. Most of them have no issues with that .. but a few do (from both groups) ...
So, the foreshore and seabed legislation started as a row over access to resources to support the wellbeing of family .. and setting up a business.
Misunderstandinmgs on both sides has fueld a massive debate, which I see no end to. It has been very damaging to our country - unneccessarily divisive and can be laid at the feet of an apparent racist local council and a stupid news media.
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
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