bike positioning on the road.

[cruzer]

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?

My handlebars are to wide and my balls are to small (afraid of Auckland Drivers)

[Lou Girardin]

I'll ride where ever I have the best visibility ahead. But also in a position to deter drivers trying to pass on the left. I tend not to stay in the right hand wheel track as this removes much of your safety cushion from oncoming vehicles. I've never had a traction problem riding in the middle of the lane. (Except for one embarrasing moment at the lights) I also use acceleration to maintain a cushion ahead of traffic too. You usually get 50 metres on cages before their drivers wake up.
The MOT bike training emphasised using the correct lines, but only using half your lane. The reasoning being that if you're next to the cntreline approaching turn-in for a left hander, you are vulnerable to an oncoming vehilcle that's crossed the centreline.

[TwoSeven]

In earlier days I spent much time travelling the length of the North Island on BSA Bantams and other such power limited 125cc type bikes.

You blasphemer you. a bantam is not power limited. Its just challenged in the engine department.


Anyhow, good to see the debate, means everyone is thinking about it, which is better than taking things for granted.

[FROSTY:Me]

2/7 --I think youre confusing a bikes blind spot with a cars blind spot.
2.0m behind (WTF are ya doing that close anyhoo --thats only one bike lenth behind ) in wheel track The center mirror in a car gives a clear view of a bike behind.
Tell ya what --bring ya bike here --Ive got 50 cars here you can park ya bike behind -Ive just been bloody trying it --Clearly visible to the driver

[erik]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it.

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions.

[TwoSeven]

2/7 --I think youre confusing a bikes blind spot with a cars blind spot.
2.0m behind (WTF are ya doing that close anyhoo) in wheel track The center mirror in a car gives a clear view of a bike behind.
Tell ya what --bring ya bike here --Ive got 50 cars here you can park ya bike behind -Ive just been bloody trying it --Clearly visible to the driver

lol.. If I ever get up that way, your on. Willing to bet a packet of m&ms on it too.

[James Deuce]

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions.

Bollocks.

If you don't want people to "leap to conclusions" then provide all the information.

In a forum post, or indeed an email, you cannot read intent or meaning if it isn't written down.

At least I don't resort to insulting people via the PM medium, or using foul (sea chickens!) language to make my "point". I've been called far worse than an idiot in this very forum without resorting to ignore lists.

People: if you can't take critique for what it is worth or how it is meant, then don't post stuff that is going to make people react in a way that you don't like. But if we did that the Internet forum medium would collapse into polite irrelevance. That might be a good thing. No more Internet "tough guys". Hmmmm?

[Beemer]

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions.

Sorry Erik but you need to reread some of our posts. Yes, there is annoyance at her seemingly cavalier attitude to following traffic, and perhaps we did word our responses a little harshly, but I for one stand by what I said. Sunhuntin is asking for trouble if, as a learner, she has this kind of attitude to other road users. She did come back later and say she waited until there was a straight where she could pull over, but we still don't know how long the traffic was built up behind her and how many vehicles there were. Also, she hasn't refuted anything anyone here has said, she's just attacked those who have said it.

This is a public forum, if she didn't want to listen to what other people have to say, she didn't have to post - and she could have come back and explained her actions a little better rather than calling Jim a wanker.

If she was sitting around in a pub and got into a discussion like this, I guarantee she would have got pretty much the same response. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen! She doesn't sound like she has very much experience on the road, and if she wants to have a long and enjoyable riding life, she does need to take on board some suggestions. How many accidents happen because a driver sitting in a queue of traffic has become frustrated and pulled out to overtake when it isn't safe to do so? If Sunhuntin had said she kept her riding line to discourage following vehicles from passing in unsafe areas, fine, but she did so to "prevent" them from passing. How patient would you have been if you were following her? Probably not very.

[vifferman]

I don't ride in any fixed position on the road - it varies according to road surface, traffic, width of the road, and a whole bunch of other variables. Some of it has to do with 'traffic psychology', some of it has to do with what I'm intending to do next, and all of it has to do with keeping safe.

Except when I'm being reckless...

Generally (when I'm not being reckless, and lane-splitting, filtering, passing in the gutter / on the footpath / on the verge beside the motorway), I ride to make sure people can see me, so that they don't try to cut me off or occupy my space, and that I avoid 'obstacles', such as greasy road surface in the wet, tar snakes, potholes, slippery lane markings, etc.
Sometimes I'll ride to the left of the lane, especially when coming onto the Harbour Bridge from Ponsonby, as I've had several instances of people trying to cut up the inside of me and force me across. That's MY perogative to cut up the inside, not some car driver's.
Sometimes, usually out on the highways and byways, if traffic's moving slowlyish, I'll ride to the far right of the lane, in the 'predatory' position, as this often encourages cars to move over slightly so I can pass safely. This is the 'psychological' bit, and is the exact opposite of the 'submissive' position, riding/driving to the far left of the lane, which encourages people to pass you.

It's all about thinking about what you're doing, not just riding along adhering to habitual actions without thinking about the changing road/traffic conditions.

[Squiggles]

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?

of course not :P there are fewer of us and that makes it ok......


i have no idea, good question

[Ixion]

.. How patient would you have been if you were following her? Probably not very.

Isn't that EXACTLY what the purpose of the L plate is supposed to be ? To indicate to other drivers that the driver/rider is a novice and could use some assistance from other road usersd, in the way of tolerance, and cutting the learner a bit of slack.

I'd be pretty patient following an L plate.

This is precisely what L platers complain about from cagers. Surely bikers can do better?

Everyone's got to learn sometime, and if a novice does make a mistake , either on the road , or in a post, a gentle admonition, with some helpful advice , goes a hell of a long way further than a full broadside of reproof and condemnation

Give the gal a break.

[James Deuce]

Give the gal a break.

No worries. We'll sit back and let her make her own mistakes, despite some of us "older" bikers feeling like we've let people die and get seriously injured because we didn't say anything when we needed to.

I went for a ride last Friday. One of the people I was riding with on the way back endangered me by riding far too close. Another over took a car on a short straight that goes into a dip followed by a blind left hand corner that has oncoming 100km/hr traffic. I spoke to the second one, and I've yet to chat with the first. I absolutely REFUSE to give up making comments to people after what happened with flyin and Ramius.

If I had delivered the message, using the same words to her face, Sunhuntin would be in no doubt that I was being "old-person" helpful. I would still have used the word "idiot", but that would probably have gone down a lot better in person.

[Beemer]

Point one: most drivers do not know that a learner is restricted to 70kph and therefore whether she had an L-plate or not, following motorists would most likely not be happy to be doing 70kph on an 100kph road. I was meaning if Erik was following her in a car - I wouldn't expect a rider to sit behind another rider travelling at 70kph unless they were riding with them.

Point two: Considering the respective responses to this post, I really don't think I have got anything to apologise for. Just because some people don't like the advice I have given is no reason for them to attack me. Not that I care if you do attack me - I'm big enough and ugly enough to take it!

Point three: Fine if you are the one right behind someone with an L-plate - the however many drivers behind you may not either know or care why the person at the front is going slow, they are still likely to be pissed off at having to travel at the same speed.

Point four: Just because there were corners does not mean there were no safe places for following motorists to pass. Have you never overtaken on a corner in a car? In some cases you can see for quite some distance and this is the point I have been trying to make all along - Sunhuntin may not have felt safe with being passed, but it could have been quite safe for the motorists following her to do so - in which case she should have shown some consideration to them and moved to the left. Please find me the relevant page in the Road Code that says you must prevent motorists from passing you under any circumstances.

I've seen more shit thrown in some other posts without someone's dad stepping in to stop the fight! I would be just as vocal if she were a 40 year old male learner so I hope the reason is not because she's a GIRL!!!

Edit - Jim was obviously posting at the same time as me, but I'd like to say I second his comments.

[ManDownUnder]

Frosty - good thread mate.

If you break it down to keep it simple... I agree.

The only exception I can generalise with is when on the Motorway in the fast lane, I hop into the left track simply to give me "somewhere to go" if needed.

No hard and fast rules though (as has been proven by the amount of detailed discussion in the thread), I don't see sticking left or staying in the middle as a long term survival strategy.
MDU

[Ixion]

Point one: most drivers do not know that a learner is restricted to 70kph and therefore whether she had an L-plate or not, following motorists would most likely not be happy to be doing 70kph on an 100kph road. I was meaning if Erik was following her in a car - I wouldn't expect a rider to sit behind another rider travelling at 70kph unless they were riding with them.

Don't see that makes any difference. If I was following a car-driving learner , who was doing 70 on a twisty road (cos learners are often not too confident on twisty roads, car or bike), I hope I'd be pretty patient too. It's just being decent.

As far as I am aware there is NO NZ road that has a minimum speed limit. 100kph is the MAXIMUM speed allowed on the road, not a "everyone must do this speed or else" speed. ANY driver who elects to travel at under the 100kph figure is entitled to do so, for whatever reason, provided they are considerate of other drivers. Consideration of other drivers is something that sometimes would not go amiss from those travelling in excess of the limit, also.

I sometimes travel at under the speed limit. Because I do not think 100kph is safe; or because I want to enjoy the scenery; or because of any other number of reasons.

If you (hypothetical 'you", not anyone in particular) come up behind me , I will do my very best to get you past. In fact I really like people overtaking me, cos then I can use them as rabbits to flush out any cops that may be around. First in line, gets the fine. I don't mind in the least you overtaking me, I'll tuck in behind you, if you're not going at a lunatic rate, and let you get any tickets that are going.

But I will not endanger myself just to avoid the heinous crime of holding you (hypothetical again) up for a few seconds.

Overtaking on a corner ? Well, I've gone through a right hander hugging the left hand edge, with a cage right alongside me , a few inches from my right hand bar, all the way through the corner. I've experience to cope with it, but I still wouldn't say it makes me feel safe. And no way would I want to see a learner have to deal with that.
..

Point three: Fine if you are the one right behind someone with an L-plate - the however many drivers behind you may not either know or care why the person at the front is going slow, they are still likely to be pissed off at having to travel at the same speed.

If they get that pissed off at being delayed for 30 seconds , they need to take some sort of course.

..

I've seen more shit thrown in some other posts without someone's dad stepping in to stop the fight! I would be just as vocal if she were a 40 year old male learner so I hope the reason is not because she's a GIRL!!!

Edit - Jim was obviously posting at the same time as me, but I'd like to say I second his comments.

What the heck does being a girl have to do with anything? Who said anything about that ? And who is "dad" ? I'm not Ms Sunhunter's dad. Is Mr Erik ? His profile says that he rides a Yammy, Ms Sunhunter said somewhere that her dad rode a harley ?

This seems totally irrelevant.