Escape routes -or how to avoid a crash.

[Jackrat]

Escape routes also include the 'path of least pain'. i.e. It's preferable to take to a paddock to escape a head-on. Takes big balls though. Most people tend to freeze with the brakes locked and wait for the bang.

That's my main plan of escape as well.
Don't really matter weather I'm on the bike,car,truck,I'm always prepared to go cross country.I reckon just about anything,even the ditch or dirt bank is gonn'a hurt a lot less that the grill of an on coming car.
I've got to the stage that if something goes bad I always look for the gap,an if that gap happens to lead me into the paddock,so be it.

[Jackrat]

he he he,just read Motu's post.Yeah yeah I know!!
Was heading south along Cobham Dr in Hamilton several years ago.
A car full of young drunks come out of one of the side roads,I'm gonn'a hit em' if I don't go somewhere else NOW.
I see a gap in the center strip so go straight through there.Yay I missed them,bummer I'm now on the wrong side of the road looking at on coming traffic.So I just carry on off the road onto the grass an then make my only real mistake,I touch the front brake.
The mate riding behind me reckoned the shower of grass an dirt went ten meters in the air.I had no damage an the bike was pretty typical of me,so a couple of extra bent bits weren't really noticable.
Look for the gap aye!!!

[Racey Rider]

Yes, Escape routes saved my bacon once when early on the learning path.

Just crusing up the Kaimai's on my VF750 one lovely day. 110 odd km/h, a car a fair way ahead of me doing the same speed. I'm enjoying the day,, looking around at the country side (as ya do when your not doing the Ton!), When I look back to the road, we have come up on this milk tanker grinding along at about 50km/h. The car that was a long ways in front of me is now slowed right behind this tanker, and me doing 110 is about to plow into Both of them!

So I hit both brakes, lock up the rear,, but instead of bracsing for impact, my mind is already conditioned to look at the escape route, Not the back of the car. Riding in a good position on the road allowed a crucial second to steer down the side of the car. By the time I slowed to their pace, my front wheel was alongside the cars rear wheel. (Good thing I didn't lock up the front or I wouldn't have been able to steer it out of trouble.)

Leason learnt: Ride fast to keep your mind on the road!

[Posh Tourer :P]

Just thought... does braking count as an escape route?

Of course it does, and it should be considered just as much as everything else. If there is enough distance, then brake, for god's (goodness's??) sake!!

Make sure you have thought about all these options, including braking, and when and why they would work.

Braking should be the second resort, after riding in such a way that you dont have to brake or worse. Only after you consider those, should you consider escape routes, as they are often more dangerous or difficult than staying in your lane and braking.

In an emergency then, the first check is can I stop in time and safely, without (for example) getting hit from behind. Second check, is what we have been discussing. That is the point of Frosty's series of threads.

1. Positioning on the road

2. Brake, brake or maybe break

3. Escape routes

[justsomeguy]

That is the point of Frosty's series of threads.

1. Positioning on the road

2. Brake, brake or maybe break

3. Escape routes

Ah haa......... Can mods please make all these stickies

That Frosty is a wise fella isn't he

I've always considered escape routes - but never in so much detail... great info here.

[Ixion]

..
Braking should be the second resort, after riding in such a way that you dont have to brake or worse. Only after you consider those, should you consider escape routes, as they are often more dangerous or difficult than staying in your lane and braking.
..

I'm always a bit iffy about hard braking - it can go wrong too.

I think you have to weigh up the hierarchy of braking versus dodging

Braking
Normal braking - just slow down and let the hazard clear
Moderate braking - They're on hardish, but you know that you'll stop in time
Full on braking . You're giving the brakes everything they've got, but you'll probably (you hope) stop in time
Emergency braking. Wheel juddering, back stepping out braking, and you're probably not going to stop before you hit - though at least you'll hit at a low speed
No chance - too close for braking to be worth much


Dodging
Good escape route- just change into the empty lane beside you
OK escape route - Easy turn into a drive or side road, road shoulder etc
Poor escape route - wrong side of road, paddock, over the kerb etc
Lousy escape route - Ditch, bank , still better than a head on
No escape route. Over a cliff, just nowhere to go.

So you compare what braking you'll need versus what dodging you can do

Moderate braking versus poor escape route - go for the brakes
Emergency braking versus OK escape route - dodge

And , of course it may sometimes be both. Brake , then observe that the hazard's opened out and you can dodge behind it.

It's really just a metter of saying all the time "If it turns to shit right now, how do I get out of it in one piece?" : braking, dodging , combination, so long as you can answer the question you'll be OK.

[FROSTY:Me]

Ixion--dude do you NEED to do a track day. Mate Im far from mr rainey or that sorta guy but even braking really really hard Im not doing the judder judder ohh fuck the backs stepping out thing.
I'd suggest that if thats the case you need to get some practice in using all ya brakes. I'd suggest that its best to find out in a practice session under controlled conditions what happens than when the shit hits the fan.
An intersesting point though--My XJ900 has a rear caliper just as big/powerfull as either of the front calipers -actually Its the same as the front. Makes sense from a production line point of view-less parts to supply same pistons etc. but the result is always a rear brake thats really feirce.
My solution to that problem is changing pad compound and reducing the contact area of the pads. (fortunately I have a mate who makes pads for cars.) Net result is a rear brake that holds the bike well on a slope and when stamoped on real hard will lock the rear wheel

[Ixion]

Ixion--dude do you NEED to do a track day. Mate Im far from mr rainey or that sorta guy but even braking really really hard Im not doing the judder judder ohh fuck the backs stepping out thing.
I'd suggest that if thats the case you need to get some practice in using all ya brakes. I'd suggest that its best to find out in a practice session under controlled conditions what happens than when the shit hits the fan.
An intersesting point though--My XJ900 has a rear caliper just as big/powerfull as either of the front calipers -actually Its the same as the front. Makes sense from a production line point of view-less parts to supply same pistons etc. but the result is always a rear brake thats really feirce.
My solution to that problem is changing pad compound and reducing the contact area of the pads. (fortunately I have a mate who makes pads for cars.) Net result is a rear brake that holds the bike well on a slope and when stamoped on real hard will lock the rear wheel

Actually, I don't worry about the back stepping out under braking . In my experience it doesn't really do any harm. Scarey when you're not used to it I suppose, but it seldom has any ill effect. And by that point the weights all on the front and the backs going to provide naff all braking anyway.So I just let it waggle about if it wants too,only gonna happen on a wet or slippery road, anyway. Or on gravel, but that's another matter again.

I concentrate on the front and keep that just below locking point.The judder is from the front wheel, signalling the need to let off a bit. The rear I'll get round to easing off once things have quietened down a bit. In fact I have a bit of a theory (that I would NOT be prepared to defend though) that a sliding rear seems to help keep the front straight.

(All academic on the Whale of course, since they won't lock . It has the back brake the same as the front, too, though only one disk as against two at the front.)

I very rarely have to brake to the max on the road , but a few times a year (or when I get a new bike, or change to a new brand of tyre) I find a deserted factory car park and check out braking (dry and wet) . Mainly just to be sure that everything's still working OK, in case I do need it.

[Pixie]

I'm always a bit iffy about hard braking - it can go wrong too.

I think you have to weigh up the hierarchy of braking versus dodging

Braking
Normal braking - just slow down and let the hazard clear
Moderate braking - They're on hardish, but you know that you'll stop in time
Full on braking . You're giving the brakes everything they've got, but you'll probably (you hope) stop in time
Emergency braking. Wheel juddering, back stepping out braking, and you're probably not going to stop before you hit - though at least you'll hit at a low speed
No chance - too close for braking to be worth much


Dodging
Good escape route- just change into the empty lane beside you
OK escape route - Easy turn into a drive or side road, road shoulder etc
Poor escape route - wrong side of road, paddock, over the kerb etc
Lousy escape route - Ditch, bank , still better than a head on
No escape route. Over a cliff, just nowhere to go.

So you compare what braking you'll need versus what dodging you can do

Moderate braking versus poor escape route - go for the brakes
Emergency braking versus OK escape route - dodge

And , of course it may sometimes be both. Brake , then observe that the hazard's opened out and you can dodge behind it.

It's really just a metter of saying all the time "If it turns to shit right now, how do I get out of it in one piece?" : braking, dodging , combination, so long as you can answer the question you'll be OK.

Too many choices,my brain hurts,I just wanna die

[Ixion]

Too many choices,my brain hurts,I just wanna die

Actually, I'd take a wager you do it all the time. Any biker who's stayed alive for a number of years does it without thinking about it.

[Deano]

If all else fails and an impact is unavoidable, stand up on the pegs as you hit - pretty hard to do a millisecond before an impact but if you can pull it off it is generally better to go over the object (usually a car) than slam into it.

Similar to Motu's comments about bailing out.

[avgas]

I always ride imagining i have no breaks (or i have lost them), if there isnt an excape route at the speed i ride, i slow down until there is.
The trick is never to rely ON ANYTHING, this includes your own bike and riding skills - not just other drivers.
Ive found from experience that if you trust in something too much - its bound to fail at the most in appropriate time.
But then again, im an engineer who only follows murphy's law.

[XP@]

If all else fails and an impact is unavoidable, stand up on the pegs as you hit - pretty hard to do a millisecond before an impact but if you can pull it off it is generally better to go over the object (usually a car) than slam into it.

Similar to Motu's comments about bailing out.

I was under the imperssion that continuing to stop was perferable to trying to jump.

But there again i have never been in that situation. any more info?

[Deano]

I was under the imperssion that continuing to stop was perferable to trying to jump.

But there again i have never been in that situation. any more info?

Not if you can't stop in time. I'd rather take my chances with a freefall and then hit the ground and roll than hit the side of a car, and come to a 'dead? 'stop.

I read it in a motorcycle beginners pamphlet. Might have been the road code, dunno, too long ago now.