Mike, are you Mikey?

**Katman** · 19th July 2011, 15:49

Originally Posted by The Lone Rider

Quite clearly the online version gives a date and time of publication to their website. That is not necessarily the time it was broadcast. Some verification from someone who had seen the broadcast, was a simple request.

The first post of this thread was posted at about 8.00pm on the 12th of July.

The online video was uploaded at about 7.30pm on the 12th of July.

It would be a fair bet that the article played on the news on the 12th of July.

Sometimes 1 plus 1 does actually equal 2.

**StoneY** · 19th July 2011, 15:50

Originally Posted by Katman

Who gives a fuck about what cc rating is recorded?

I'm talking specifically about where responsibility for fatal motorcycle accidents lies.

Obviously the Minister of ACC does - hence the 601cc line in the sand on the levy fee

Originally Posted by Katman

I already have.

All year long I have tried to take your viewpoint as 'an alternative that needs to be heard'
But now.... you just can't be reasoned with at all can you? Even when the truth is in your face you have to try twist the thread to suit your narrow minded view of the world huh?

If the truth does not match YOUR version of reality you resort to pathetic attempts to discredit those doing the REAL work, well dude epic fail, you are WRONG get the fuck over it.
The guys I am working with as part of this team, are far smarter than I am and they are starting to see these numbers that Dr Lamb has demonstrated, and its very eye opening indeed.

In 70% of the developed world, 70% of all MVA's Motorcyclists are involved in are caused by the other vehicle, in NZ according to Dr Lamb its about 65%
Most of these incidents are caused by visibility issues affecting the non motorcyclists... and sometimes that IS speed, and if so it can be the bike at fault for sure............ but NOT ALWAYS!

Even single vehicle accidents for bikes are frequently caused by external influence, gravel spills, poorly swept or unmarked roadworks play a factor far more often than many believe

Get over yaself this time Steve....

Back to topic

Who was Mad Mike?

**Ender EnZed** · 19th July 2011, 15:52

Originally Posted by The Lone Rider

Quite clearly the online version gives a date and time of publication to their website. That is not necessarily the time it was broadcast. Some verification from someone who had seen the broadcast, was a simple request.

It was on ONE News At 6pm on Tuesday the 12th of July.

**Katman** · 19th July 2011, 15:55

Originally Posted by StoneY

The guys I am working with as part of this team, are far smarter than I am......

Goldfish are smarter than you Stoney.

**StoneY** · 19th July 2011, 16:04

Originally Posted by Katman

.

Goldfish are smarter than you Stoney.

Always got to stoop to the personal level huh?
I think you just ran out of credible arguments, and caved.

Hmmmmmm new poll methinks.......

**Maha** · 19th July 2011, 16:06

Originally Posted by StoneY

Always got to stoop to the personal level huh?
I think you just ran out of credible arguments, and caved.

Hmmmmmm new poll methinks.......

I should break with tradition and start one....

**avgas** · 19th July 2011, 16:41

What beer should I buy from the supermarket this week?

Perhaps I will make a shandy for any ZZR250 that wish to have a drink.

**Katman** · 19th July 2011, 16:50

Originally Posted by StoneY

Even when the truth is in your face you have to try twist the thread to suit your narrow minded view of the world huh?

What truth?

I mentioned the figure of 75% in regards to responsibility for motorcycle accidents and you start wanking on about incorrect recording of cc ratings.

Talk about twisting threads.

**Banditbandit** · 19th July 2011, 16:51

Well overdue for Monty Python (tho' sometimes this thread resembles a script ...)

**Crasherfromwayback** · 19th July 2011, 17:00

**Katman** · 19th July 2011, 18:52

Originally Posted by StoneY

As above, Dr Lambs researchers found 7 such errors, that one happens to be the most extreme case and he used it to show us why the data is CURRENTLY unreliable...that ok with you Steve????

I have this picture in my head of you all sitting at the feet of your revered Professor and suddenly someone jumping up saying "Ow, ow, Charlie - I've found one!! Look, they've written this 9 upside down and it should be a 6!!"

All the while conveniently ignoring the fact that it is still a motorcycle accident. (And probably an accident that was immanently avoidable).

You lot can keep chasing your tails if it makes you feel useful. Me? I'll stick to the real issues.

**_Shrek_** · 19th July 2011, 19:21

Originally Posted by The Lone Rider

I think the usefulness of fools like "Virago" start and finish well before they wake up and log online.

Quite clearly the online version gives a date and time of publication to their website. That is not necessarily the time it was broadcast. Some verification from someone who had seen the broadcast, was a simple request.

There seem to be far fewer people making an effort to help a wider community of two wheelers.

In a case of fools arguing; best not to attend lest you be confused as one of them. I'm outa here.

sorry to see you go

**riffer** · 19th July 2011, 20:34

Originally Posted by Katman

I have this picture in my head of you all sitting at the feet of your revered Professor and suddenly someone jumping up saying "Ow, ow, Charlie - I've found one!! Look, they've written this 9 upside down and it should be a 6!!"

All the while conveniently ignoring the fact that it is still a motorcycle accident. (And probably an accident that was immanently avoidable).

You lot can keep chasing your tails - I'll stick to the real issues.

To a point you're right Steve. If we all never rode bikes we wouldn't have crashes. I've been privy to all the data too. Charlie Lamb & co aren't sitting around being idiots - there's a lot of work gone into this.

For me what's been the eye opener has been observing the mode, rather than the mean. Where the mean is the averaging out of all the figures, the mode is the most-commonly occurring figure.

And what's standing out is the following figures:

In the case of multiple vehicle accidents (MVAs) - it's predominantly car drivers causing the accidents - around 66%.

In the case of single vehicle accidents (SVAs) - its about 35% environmental factors. Which leaves about 65% rider responsibility for the accidents.

Now what's also interesting it that in the MVAs the most likely person to cause the accident is 21 years old and has had a licence less than 5 years. And the person most likely to be on the bike is 21 years old as well and has also had a license less than 5 years.

And the SVAs - the mode age was a bit older - 25 - but the huge majority of riders tested positive for alcohol or drugs in the blood - and a large majority were also exceeding the speed limit.

So yes - there is clear evidence that a small minority of riders are killing themselves through riding fast (and a large number of them are fucked up on drugs or alcohol) but it's by means the epidemic it appears through your posts.

So - we have two problems:

1. The young fellers (car and motorcycle) who obviously need training; and
2. The Darwin award winners.

I'm inclined to look after group no 1 and let group no 2 gradually die off.

What ideas do others have?

**scumdog** · 19th July 2011, 20:39

Originally Posted by Katman

That's all well and good Stoney, but until you can come up with irrefutable evidence to the contrary then you simply doing an ostrich impersonation.

You could start by trawling through all the Kiwibiker fatalities. I imagine they wouldn't be too far off 75%.

100% here.

But I haven't been to every crash in NZ.