Cheesecutter campaign - losing the battle

[BoristheBiter]

WRB Have been proven as a major hazard for Motor Bikes, especially Over-Sea, but no-one is listening here. And now it seems they have even conned Bikers here that WBR are OK going by some of the posts on here
At this rate you Guys will believe that the Bikoi was waste of time too, and that ACC are justified in raising Bike Rego Levies.
Yep NZ is full of Two Legged Sheep happy ride the truck to the meat-works.

See you have missed my point.

How many bikes have crossed the centre line and killed someone? quite a few.
How many cars have done the same? more than bikes have.
So TPTB have to remove the common denominator which is cars. More cars cross the centre line and kill themselves and others then any other forms of transport on the roads.

The fact is they stop cars from cross into on coming traffic and that is what they have been designed to do, But if it stops someone crossing into my lane whether i am on my bike or in the cage than i am all fore it and if it makes me pay more attention to the road then what is the harm?

As for the rest of your post i just can't be bothered.

[RiderInBlack]

Did you do anything Doug?

Yep I stirred you guys up.
As my riding days are in decline, it will soon be no longer a problem for me. I start this thread to Bring that Story to KB's attention & to see if any in the Biker World still cared. With the replies I have got it seems that very few still do enough to do anything about it. Glad to hear that MAG is at least still concerned about WRB.
If and when Riders want to show some action on the WRB or ACC Levy Front, drop me a line. I might just still have a bike, or be willing to show them some support even if I end up no longer riding. But if there is not enough interest out there, then there is no point in me bothering for a Hobby that I am not much involved in any more.

Best of luck,
Doug.

[James Deuce]

The fact is they stop cars from cross into on coming traffic and that is what they have been designed to do, But if it stops someone crossing into my lane whether i am on my bike or in the cage than i am all fore it and if it makes me pay more attention to the road then what is the harm?

.

That's there is the problem. In NZ they are deployed incorrectly. WRBs are designed to be installed in the middle of a central reservation at least 20m wide. They deform a lot to absorb energy. They deform enough to place a vehicle in your path if you happen to be opposite at the wrong moment.

[BoristheBiter]

That's there is the problem. In NZ they are deployed incorrectly. WRBs are designed to be installed in the middle of a central reservation at least 20m wide. They deform a lot to absorb energy. They deform enough to place a vehicle in your path if you happen to be opposite at the wrong moment.

NZ roads in general are the problem followed with bad planing and bad installation and even worse maintenance.

I know what you mean about the 20m strip bit. So many places have it, works very well with no barriers only a deep channel covered in grass.

[RiderInBlack]

That's there is the problem. In NZ they are deployed incorrectly. WRBs are designed to be installed in the middle of a central reservation at least 20m wide. They deform a lot to absorb energy. They deform enough to place a vehicle in your path if you happen to be opposite at the wrong moment.

Plus as their are now, They are not very effective against trucks or some cars. The argument from a Rider's perspective is never been that there should be no barriers. It's been if their are going to put barriers in for our safety, then they should take all roads users in to consideration when instilling them. As the WRB stand at the moment, they do not. In the case of the Rider, they actually represent an added risk, End Of Story.

[BMWST?]

The point here is wrb are designed to prevent vehicles from crossing iinto the other lane,and they do that very well.That of course means as motorcyclists that helps us too as we wont be confronted with a car(maybe wouldnt stop a truck) in our lane.
So median barriers are a good thing right?What is the alternative median barrier that IS motorcycle freindly.?
Just playin devils advocate here

[James Deuce]

The point here is wrb are designed to prevent vehicles from crossing iinto the other lane,and they do that very well.

No they don't. There have been two motorcyclist deaths in NSW in the last twelve months from vehicles hitting the barrier and deforming it enough to impede progress for the motorcyclist on the other side of the road. There have been injuries in both NZ and Australia from vehicles hitting the barrier and deforming it so that vehicles on the other side of the road have an unavoidable collision. They don't work as they are deployed and they've never been suggested as a solution for any vehicle over 2 tonnes.

If you use them, you need to have a central reservation. Even then some vehicles will submarine under the barrier almost unimpeded and others will crush the barriers and ride over. They work well when implemented correctly and only then for a percentage of traffic.

[BMWST?]

No they don't. There have been two motorcyclist deaths in NSW in the last twelve months from vehicles hitting the barrier and deforming it enough to impede progress for the motorcyclist on the other side of the road. There have been injuries in both NZ and Australia from vehicles hitting the barrier and deforming it so that vehicles on the other side of the road have an unavoidable collision. They don't work as they are deployed and they've never been suggested as a solution for any vehicle over 2 tonnes.

If you use them, you need to have a central reservation. Even then some vehicles will submarine under the barrier almost unimpeded and others will crush the barriers and ride over. They work well when implemented correctly and only then for a percentage of traffic.

ok now we getting somewhere,cos we now have an argument!Is there a alternative to wrb?

[DEATH_INC.]

ffs, this has been done to death. This is why we don't get anywhere, we can't even agree with ourselves, or even listen to each other. There are alternatives, they've been gone through before. Look back at some of the posts in the cheesecutter threads.

[James Deuce]

ok now we getting somewhere,cos we now have an argument!Is there a alternative to wrb?

Yes. Problem is concrete barriers are slightly more expensive to make than the doings for WRBs. I've been knocked off by a truck swerving across three lanes of highway and came off and slid along a concrete barrier. I broke my wrist from putting my hand out to "save" myself when landing, but sliding along the barrier in leathers was less painful by far than the bottom of a ruck.

WRBs and armco can be put up faster than concrete barriers and TPTB claim that they are more flexible solutions than concrete barriers. Neither are very motorcycle friendly though, as the posts have been left exposed in NZ. European countries usually legislate three rails of armco and cladding for WRB posts.

Yes, it has been done to death. The end result is that just like ACC levies and shifting the burden of skill and visibility to motorcyclists, cost is the main driving factor in Government decisions around roading, not saving lives. That's the only way you can explain Fulton Hogan being handed road maintenance contracts IMO.

Always remember that it is OK to kill or injure someone on NZ roads, either through incompetence or the negligence inherent in poor infrastructure maintenance practices. That way you'll have a better mental starting point when using the road.

[Berries]

There have been two motorcyclist deaths in NSW in the last twelve months from vehicles hitting the barrier and deforming it enough to impede progress for the motorcyclist on the other side of the road.

So what would you recommend if the alternative is no barrier at all?

[James Deuce]

So what would you recommend if the alternative is no barrier at all?

I wouldn't recommend anything. I simply don't think that deformable barriers are an adequate solution for highway traffic in NZ or Australia, especially when that highway has no median reservation.

People dredged up a crap load of information for and against WRBs, so the research is relatively easy to find via KB. Read some and make up your own mind. My mind is damaged.

[RiderInBlack]

So what would you recommend if the alternative is no barrier at all?

Ay the risk of repeating myself:

The argument from a Rider's perspective is never been that there should be no barriers. It's been if their are going to put barriers in for our safety, then they should take all roads users in to consideration when instilling them. As the WRB stand at the moment, they do not. In the case of the Rider, they actually represent an added risk, End Of Story.

I believe that is also JD's stand point.

ffs, this has been done to death. This is why we don't get anywhere, we can't even agree with ourselves, or even listen to each other. There are alternatives, they've been gone through before. Look back at some of the posts in the cheesecutter threads.

Agreed but Bikers should not lye down at let the topic die. Unless you Guys are happy with more of this stuff being instilled as it is at the moment without regard for Rider Safety.

[Ocean1]

or Australia, especially when that highway has no median reservation.

Highways in Aus are far more likely to be separated by at least a stone's throw of field and / or shrubbery. Increasingly more commonly completely separate carriageways.

But making roads in level sand is cheap, the cost of doing that here is far higher, with fewer people to pay for it.

Concrete barriers are the go for most applications here, without a doubt.

[Berries]

I wouldn't recommend anything. I simply don't think that deformable barriers are an adequate solution for highway traffic in NZ or Australia, especially when that highway has no median reservation.

In the example you gave I imagine that without the barrier both those riders may well have been killed anyway. I wonder how many people died before they decided to put the barrier in? I would be surprised if the number of head on crashes had increased as a result, even if there are better barrier types for median use available.

People dredged up a crap load of information for and against WRBs, so the research is relatively easy to find via KB. Read some and make up your own mind.

Made my mind up years ago. Half my daily commute is alongside a median WRB and to be honest it doesn’t even figure as a hazard in comparison to some of the other stuff I have to put up with. If I worried about what I was going to hit after I have crashed I’d have stopped riding years ago.