Keeping visible in the depths of winter.

**riffer** · 7th July 2005, 21:50

Huh. I know the feeling. My tail light's blown. And taken the instruments with it. Go figure - they must be on the same line.

Anyway, I've been lightly touching the back brake all the way to work today. Not good in the dark going to work I tell you.

I'll rip off the fairings tomorrow to have a look.

Why did Suzuki design a bike you have to remove the fairings off to change a bulb?

**Flyingpony** · 7th July 2005, 23:15

Originally Posted by Motu

Fear not,I have it here - page 4-4-1,reg 9.....a daytime running lamp must not opperate when a front fog lamp or a headlamp is in use.

So XTC is opperating his motorcycle illeagally,this is of great concern for all us motorcyclists if one of us takes the law into their own hands - I suggest a citizens arest is in order,we need to get this dangerous motorcycle off the road ASAP!

I've had a number of cars nearly wipe me out because they didn't spot when my brake light became illuminated. All but one case had heaps of opportunity to spot it but failed to, that one case was when I suddenly discovered an extremely close tailgater was going sideways behind me despite the mirror check 10sec prior giving the all clear for a good 200m. Only possibility is they must've come from the side street I'd just passed.

Have seen in Asian countries whereby the rear indicator lights flash when the brakes are on, and it's extremely effectively I can tell you too!

You can imagine my disappointment when I asked around if I could legally make this modification and they say I'll fail my WOF

So unfortunately I can't make that modification, but what about red flashing lights? Is that illegal?

What about if I mount another set of orange indicator lights and use those, is that illegal?

Car's have a extra high stop light, but it doesn't flash.
I want to make the back end brighter when braking, especially after reading that another FXR got rear ended up in Auckland. Definitely don't want that to happen to me!

**XP@** · 7th July 2005, 23:34

Originally Posted by Flyingpony

So unfortunately I can't make that modification, but what about red flashing lights? Is that illegal?

What about if I mount another set of orange indicator lights and use those, is that illegal?

Car's have a extra high stop light, but it doesn't flash.
I want to make the back end brighter when braking, especially after reading that another FXR got rear ended up in Auckland. Definitely don't want that to happen to me!

Cyclists have red flashing rear lights. So flashing should be ok.
I have 2 sets of orange indicators and they are wofable. I put them there because the standard pair are invisible with my panniers on.

Don't know what would happen if they flashed when you put the anchors on. There again if the light dosent flash when you get the warrent. but amazingly develops a strange bug in the electrics just after the wof...

Or you could try one of these:
http://www.challengermotors.co.nz/We.../signalfly.htm

If there are any electronics wizzes out there is there any way of making a unit to flash a set of LED's faster based on the length of time the brakes have been applied?
edit: just found this on LED's
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...-articles/led/
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...ake-lights.htm

**Ixion** · 7th July 2005, 23:54

Originally Posted by Flyingpony

..

So unfortunately I can't make that modification, but what about red flashing lights? Is that illegal?

What about if I mount another set of orange indicator lights and use those, is that illegal?

Car's have a extra high stop light, but it doesn't flash.
I want to make the back end brighter when braking, especially after reading that another FXR got rear ended up in Auckland. Definitely don't want that to happen to me!

OK. Here ya go

First. HERE are the RULES on what you can and can't do

(NB motorcycles are class L vehicles)

Sorry, but flashing tails lights are not legal either

2.1(3) The light emitted from a lamp must be steady unless otherwise specified in this rule or any other enactment.

(pisses me off to, LTSA claim to want to improve safety, then make things that would actually do that illegal!)

However : You can have MORE THAN ONE taillight !

7.4(3) A motor vehicle of Group L must be fitted with at least one rearward-facing position lamp that emits light that is visible during the hours of darkness from a distance of:

* (a) 100 m, for a vehicle of Class LA or Class LB; and
* (b) 200 m, for a vehicle of Class LC, LD or LE.

At least one ! Nothing about a maximum number ! (I think this is an oversight, but that's what it says. So I have three!)

AND !! You can have TWO normal height stop (brake) lights

4.3(1) Subject to 4.3(2), a motor vehicle of Class LA or Class LB may be fitted with one or two stop lamps at the rear of the vehicle.

4.3(2) A motor vehicle of Class LA or Class LB first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 January 1991 must be fitted with one or two stop lamps at the rear of the vehicle.

AND !! You can have *TWO* HIGH MOUNTED brake lights AS WELL

5.3(1) A motor vehicle not specified in 5.3(2) or 5.3(3) may be fitted with one or two high-mounted stop lamps.

5.3(2) A motor vehicle of Class MA, first registered in New Zealand on or after 1 January 1990, must be fitted with one or two high-mounted stop lamps.

5.3(3) A vehicle of Group A must not be fitted with a high-mounted stop lamp.

(Definition of high mounted stop lamp

High-mounted stop lamp
means a stop lamp that is designed to be fitted in a central, high-mounted position at the rear of a vehicle.

)

So you can have as many tail lights as you want. Plus two low brake lights, plus two high brake lights

If you can't get enough light out of that then you're hard to please indeed.

Assuming of course that your charging system can handle all this .

EDIT- Second set of orange "indicators" as running lights

Strictly, slightly dubious since the Design Approvals for the lights (those numbers on the lenses) will be for use as an indicator not a DRL.

But I doubt any WOF inspector is going to be clued up enough to pick that one up.

But ANY daytime running light MUST automatically turn off when the headlamps come on. Doesn't matter if they are doubling as indicators or not. I have actually done exactly that, fitted a second set of amber lamps. But mine go off if you turn the lights on. It's fairly trivial to do this, just need a DTSP relay, and run the feed to the DRL from the non energised side. Then feed the relay from the headlamp circuit.

**Zapf** · 8th July 2005, 00:55

just clip the Cyclists flashing red light to a bungy cord and then hook it around your cargo hooks on the tail

**What?** · 8th July 2005, 06:31

Who remenbers the Eric and Douglas cartoons? They found the answer to perfect visibilty. After trying all sorts of lights, dayglo vests etc, they fitted a sticker, about 2 inches square, to the side of their chair. The sticker read "Caution: Live AIDS virus courier" - suddenly all Volvo drivers were able to see them and keep clear...

**Lou Girardin** · 8th July 2005, 09:43

LED bulb conversions are the way to go for brake lights. The Bandit light must be quite bright though, judging from the way tailgaters back off when I give the brake a dab.

**vifferman** · 8th July 2005, 09:50

Originally Posted by Ixion

OK. Here ya go

First. HERE are the RULES on what you can and can't do....

Pharking stupid, and as you say, the LTSA claims that it's continual bureaucratising of our lives is for 'safety' but is actually making things worse.
F'rinstance, there's some company that makes helmet-mounted, remotely-operated brake lights - an excellent idea to stop you being rear-ended! But probably illegal here, unless because they're neither mounted on nor attached to the vehicle, they don't count. If that's the case, then flashing bicycle lights etc. could be OK too...

**XTC** · 8th July 2005, 11:43

I'm too scared to go out on my bike now as it's so illegal...... I'd better disconnect the running lights and remove the headlight bulb so I cannot be seen by mr Plod or anyone else

**Wolf** · 11th July 2005, 13:53

I think it is bloody stupid that cyclists can get away with flashing rear lights but they're illegal on motorbikes and cars - mind you, pushbikes would fail a WoF test on so many counts anyway - why shouldnt they have one more thing that's "illegal" on 'em?

OK, fair enough, no white lights to the rear or red lights to the front, but WTF is Land Transport or LTSA or the Permanent Pen Pushing Brigade thinking not allowing things that would make motorcycles more visible and less likely to be involved in an accident? Proof our road rules are written by morons.

And any time one of us emails the fuck heads with a sensible suggestion an email comes back with moronic blathering from someone who probably would be incapable of getting a bike licence.

Perhaps we need to get an action campaign, of the "refuse to pay registration fees until some of the stupid laws are redressed" variety, going.

Trucks - big and easy to see - are allowed to have more running lights on their sides than an ocean liner and we're limited by "Cosmetic lights may be fitted if the light source is not visible" - why can we not have side mounted amber lights and extra amber lights front and rear running at all times to make ourselves more visible from all angles? Why are we not permitted to have flashing lights - red ones mounted at the rear only to avoid being confused with indicators - that would make us easier to spot at night time?

If it's "confusing" or "annoying" to have flashing red lights, why are they not illegal to use on pushbikes? If it's not "confusing" or "annoying", why can we not have them?

Are they worried that cagers might think we're riding a pushbike and so behave cautiously and considerately near us?

**Bnonn** · 13th April 2007, 10:08

Forget amber running lights. They're too dim anyway. Get a couple of $25 super-bright secondary headlights from Supercheap Auto, and a couple of super-bright LED brake lights, and hook them up as running lights. It's legal to have your headlights on at all times, and as far as I know there is no limit to the number you may have. We've already seen in this thread that you are allowed an unlimited number of red tail-lights. So stick the super-bright red LEDs on top of your rear indicators, wire them up to your existing tail-light, and do the same with your main and secondary headlights at the front. If someone still fails to see you after that, they should have their license taken away because they're legally blind.

**scumdog** · 13th April 2007, 11:16

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

What's a daytime running lamp defined as?

Lou has a good point here; running lights, auxiliary lights, spot lights, fog lights etc etc are all in a grey area when it comes to a definitive description.

There's enough 4 X 4 vehicle running around with the driver blithely ignorant of exactly what lights at the front are actually on and what there purpose is that I doubt a motorcycle would be targetted for having its indicators on as marking/running (or whatever you want to call them) lights.

I have two bright-as running lights, one each each side of the headlight, I switch them off at night as then they make for one giant dazzling glare. (for me as well as others on the road).