What would you prefer?

[Big Dave]

I would read into it: Use your discretion.

[davereid]

If a cop is interested in teaching me to ride this well, I'll listen to everything he has to say.

http://youtu.be/bWaq0zOaAVU

Id see random stopping, lectures and rego checks as irritating not engaging.

And well organised opportunities to learn from professional riders very positive.

[Ocean1]

Comments?

Recognise that there are as many different versions of motorcycle lore as there are cultural shades of motorcyclists. Many of these sub-cultures amount to a collection of behaviours as effective at minimising risk as police motorcycle lore, in spite of huge differences in “content” and “attitude”.

Accepting this, who would you imagine should be the teacher and who the pupil? Me? I’d love a regular argument with the local police riders, (don’t think there’s many of them nowadays though) over a beer. Might even tempt a few to the dark side eh? Whether or no, there might well be shit learned all round.

[bogan]

I like that you're thinking about this stuff.

I think leave the enforcement as SOP, if somebody is doing dumb shit ticket them, regardless of vehicle. IMO targetting and ticketing just one type of vehicle is not a good way to affect a permanent change of attitude (in a positive way anyway).

An engagement campaign will likely go down a lot better. But it is a very fine, and often wiggly, line between it being interpreted as engagement, or harassment. Easiest way to stay on the right side is make it voluntary. Set up a voluntary checkpoint, you might just get a heap of bikers stopping out of curiosity alone, promise no tickets will be issued and you might get a few more. Obviously you would need some good educational material, many notches above what was dished out at the ACC ones.

[White trash]

Interesting bunch of responses.

Not sure what to read into it.

Maybe I'll just go hide in a bush and dish out some usual responses. It seems to be easier to just default to that then actually try to find out what might work.

Shouldn't be your job to find out what might work mate. It's your job to catch people breaking the law. Given your thought provoking posts on this very forum, it's obvious you're a forward thinking officer who possibly excercises a bit of discretion where you feel its warranted.

If you pull me up after witnessing my truely awesome 160kph stand-up wheelie down the motorway through traffic on a Saturday morning, I'll take my medicine.

If you're hiding in the bushes on a deserted stretch of the plains and ping me at 113kph, while I'll take the ticket on the chin (I was speeding after all) but I'd have more respect for the officer if he offered a "Jimmy, you know the speed limit, I'm waggling my finger at you and teling you to be more aware of where we are probably hiding to catch some dangerous cunts"

Those are my thoughts.

[rastuscat]

And there's the problem, very few experienced motorcyclists in the police force.

Yes. Bugger all.

Motorcycle Popos come in 2 varietals.

Those who ride personal bikes who also ride patrol bikes. These are the ones that get paid for doing what they like to do i.e. ride bikes. These guys have had to do a fairly strenuous qualifying course, and who have to requalify each year. They get selected i.e. very few who want to ever get to be a motorcycle Popo. This is also because to be a MC Popo you have to work in Road Policing, which some 'real Popos' just wouldn't do.

Think there's about 26 of us nationwide. Used to be more (about 40, I think), but the fleet consolidation a couple of years ago saw the bikes gone from a few towns.

The others are those who ride their own bikes, but turn up and do whatever other job they have in Popoland. Most don't work in Road Policing. Experience varies hugely.

It's not easy to 'engage' in discourse when you don't have empathy with who you're working with. Maybe that's why Popos default to enforcement, coz on the whole, they don't know any better.

Harumph.

[Oblivion]

If you're hiding in the bushes on a deserted stretch of the plains and ping me at 113kph, while I'll take the ticket on the chin (I was speeding after all) but I'd have more respect for the officer if he offered a "Jimmy, you know the speed limit, I'm waggling my finger at you and teling you to be more aware of where we are probably hiding to catch some dangerous cunts"

Those are my thoughts.

+1

Thats exactly what I think as well. The Police shouldn't be out there just to ping Mr Joe Bloggs because he went 105.5 on a straight stretch of road on Labour day. The thing about speeding, is there is a difference between safe speeding and downright dangerous and potentially lethal speeding. Going 120kmph on a straight boring stretch of road with no traffic is a totally different story than the dumb shits choice to do 70kmph wheelies in a 50kmph zone in rush hour. If I got pinged for going over the speed limit in a safe environment, then it is my fault for speeding. Extra points for the cop for understanding that I was being as safe as I could and not doing anything to endanger my life as well as anyone elses. But if someone did something stupid on the road, (Which seems to be the norm for people round my age) Then give the shithead a ticket, and while you at it impound his vehicle for 30 days.

[rastuscat]

If you pull me up after witnessing my truely awesome 160kph stand-up wheelie down the motorway through traffic on a Saturday morning, I'll take my medicine.

Witnessed a KB member do a mono across Bealey Ave, ChurChur about 5 years ago. For a reason particular to the rider it was awe inspiring. He followed your advice, just sucked it up, took it on the chin, all that sort of thing. I stood back and admired the bike and smiled and chortled (with the rider, BTW, even he was cool about it all), while the boss I was with (my boss) dished out the pain.

It's hard to balance being a bike rider and a Popo. But I'll manage

Donuts.

[Jack Miller]

So, what would work best for you? Enforcement? Engagement?
Comments?

I was going to start a thread on riding to the lowest common enforcement denominator. Still might. In the meantime, it is relevant here. As you've indicated there is a wide range of attitudes, personalities, and role perception throughout the Popo community. There's guys like you who will turn a blind eye to someone doing 120 in a passing lane, especially if it looks like the vehicle they're overtaking has sped up. You'll even pull over and ticket slow drivers who impede others. On the other hand there ARE Popos (don't deny it or you'll lose all credibility) who specifically hunt in easy "fishing holes" like passing lanes to look good to those bosses who like to see a high ticket count. This leaves us with a major problem. We have to ride assuming that there is a Popo hidden on every passing lane. i.e.; we have to ride to the lowest common enforcement denominator.

At best this forces frustration, it also forces us to stay in road trains that are dangerous and get more so as all the drivers' tempers rise the longer it goes on, instead of simply zapping past into the safety of a less densely trafficked section of road. This is very significant to motorcyclists who are both more at risk in a road train and more easily able to zap out of it. At worst, and an AA member survey confirms this, it causes people to overtake at places other than passing lanes, which wastes the investment we taxpayers have made in the passing lanes and is usually more dangerous.

You, and every competent, skilled rider knows what is safest. Yet some Popos enforce the opposite, and doing so force us to ride less safely. So long as we are riding less safely to protect ourselves from the lowest Popos NO Popo-initiated motorcycle safety campaign will get a favourable reception.

[Jack Miller]

I don't understand this. Lets use speeding as an example. We all know what the limit is, and it's our choice to break it. Are we expecting to get the police to 'work with us' on this issue? I've only ever been targeted by the police when I've been doing something wrong.

Lucky you. I've been targeted and falsely accused. Always managed to fight it off so far but it's stressful, infuriating and time consuming.

[rastuscat]

Ah well, provoked a few thoughts, and that's never bad.

Even prodded Jack out of his cave.

Donuts.

[rastuscat]

On the other hand there ARE Popos (don't deny it or you'll lose all credibility) who specifically hunt in easy "fishing holes" like passing lanes to look good to those bosses who like to see a high ticket count.

Indeed Jacko.

Thing is, the Popos you mention keep the paranoia up. If it's paranoia that keeps the 85th percentile down, I can't argue much with the tactic. I just don't do it myself.

If there were no fish, the holes wouldn't exist. Sadly self defeating.

Like I said, it's hard to defend (and I'm not), but it actually works.

For some it's about the quantity of tickets written, for others it's about the quality. Any time you have an output capable of being counted, that output will be used in different ways by different people for different purposes. That's goal displacement, a la Management 101.

[Road kill]

Can't answer the poll.

I don't want anything to do with the police,,,so if I'm not seen to be breaking the law,,just leave me the hell alone.

[Scuba_Steve]

Indeed Jacko.

Thing is, the Popos you mention keep the paranoia up. If it's paranoia that keeps the 85th percentile down, I can't argue much with the tactic. I just don't do it myself.

If there were no fish, the holes wouldn't exist. Sadly self defeating.

Like I said, it's hard to defend (and I'm not), but it actually works.

For some it's about the quantity of tickets written, for others it's about the quality. Any time you have an output capable of being counted, that output will be used in different ways by different people for different purposes. That's goal displacement, a la Management 101.

does it??? with my time on the road (and I spend ALOT of time on it) we currently have some of the slowest drivers we've ever had in my driving life... But as speed went down so did driving ability it seems, as now we have some of the worst drivers we ever had (again my driving life)

So yes they've slowed people down, but to the detriment of safety & driving ability, is that really a win???

[Madness]

It's slowed people down but at the same time it has created the estrangement that has seeped deep into law abiding NZ homes & families to ever increasing levels. Is it worth it, assuming there must be other options available.