Why so few motorcycles in today's emergency services?

[slofox]

Itz cos they're dangerous innit?

Fixed...


Perzackerly. Couldn't have them murdercycles used by legitimate persons as opposed to all us bastards out there...

[Renegade]

i think its just auckland, wellington and christchurch that have bike cops, rotorua had a bike that was shared but apparently each bike counts as a vehicle on paper which means why have a bike that costs more to buy that a holden and carries less crap = sell bike.

I did hear a story about a couple of cops that cranked the bosses visa in christchurch after the quake purchasing a couple of dirt bikes so they could get around, story goes that they got an ass kicking because technically they could of just commandeered the buggers, now they own them

[Ocean1]

I fell in with a flotilla of 5, (FIVE) a couple of years ago on the Hutt non-motorway. We played that game where you all stick as close as possible to 100k while looking determinedly and casually nonchalant. They were obviously on training manoeuvres and it occurred to me then that I hadn’t seen one for a while. I’ve seen one perhaps 5 times since.

They do have a place other than escort duties, I’d be fascinated to hear whatever justification head office might have for what’s obviously the almost complete abandonment of the fleet.

Actually I wouldn't be that fascinated, Jim's nailed it, the H&S Nazis have had their wicked way.

[davereid]

Our emergency ambo response here in Kapiti has a bike now....it was donated to our EMS unit.

Yep. ESL Security in Kapiti-Horowhenua use a motorcycle for alarm responses especially during holiday weekends when the traffic is terrible.

[James Deuce]

Fixed...


Perzackerly. Couldn't have them murdercycles used by legitimate persons as opposed to all us bastards out there...

It didn't need fixing dunnit? It is cos vey is fick vat vey have no motorcycles innit?

[rastuscat]

On another thread Ocean1 wrote:

I think this maybe deserves a thread of its own. It's a bloody good idea! Bikes are a very rapid first response unit able to filter through traffic jams and get to the scene. If they are adventure style bikes they can even use berms, verges and cross-country shortcuts. If there were more bikes in these roles they would raise the profile of motorcycles in the minds of other road users who all too often "don't see" us, and re-legitimise motorcycles in the face of increasing belief that we shouldn't be on the road.

Are there any emergency service employees on the forum who can tell us why motorcycles are so scarce in their services?

Well well, Jack, have I got an answer for you.

Back in the MoT days, the accountants dragged the R80RTs off the road because they cost 19c per KM to operate. That was quite a lot in 1991. A V3000 cost only 22c per km (not just petrol, but overall costs), but a car is cheaper for the road policing role i.e. 2 cops can fit in a car, so you need less of them.

I championed the reintroduction of the Chch Popo bikes in 2005, and we finally got them in 2007. I had to write a substantial business case. Out of interest, a vehicle is a vehicle, so to get 2 bikes, our district had to relinquish 2 cars. Since then they have cost a bloody fortune to keep them on the road. The reasons we got them were because the boss got sick of me nagging about it, and I promised him strategic advantages. I delivered, but at what has turned out to be a high financial price.

In this world of risk aversion, only the best gear will do, and that's damn dear. The bikes we have (R1200RT-P models) are great, but pricey to buy, fix and operate. E.g. A helmet costs about $1K, coz we don't buy junk, and they're a long term consumable.

It's all about money, Jacko, if that answers your question. In my mind they're worth it, for all the reasons you probably know, but the guy writing the cheques has his doubts.

Post me a list of questions, and I'll spend a month giving you some answers. Until then, know that it's basically hard and expensive to keep even a small bike fleet on the road, so largely, we don't.

Harumph.

[rastuscat]

I went with my son to a Police force open eve for people thinking of joining up. He fancied being a bike cop. We were amazed to be told that NZ doesnt really have many bike cops and that they were being phased out. This was 2 years ago. I must admit, Ive never seen a bike cop here in 5 years. It would do wonders for police/ biker relations if we saw some of them out on the road and offering training courses too, like what happens overseas. From my experience in the UK, bike cops are very highly skilled. Comes down to money i spose.

Have said it before on KB. There's about 26 of us left, but we're a hard core and are working to keep bikes in existence.

Trouble is, the bosses don't actually see the justification for them, just the hassle.

Donuts.

[Katman]

Have said it before on KB. There's about 26 of us left, but we're a hard core and are working to keep bikes in existence.

Trouble is, the bosses don't actually see the justification for them, just the hassle.

Donuts.

Concentrate on riding sensibly instead of doing donuts then.

[Ocean1]

Post me a list of questions, and I'll spend a month giving you some answers.

Do I get a couple?

How come the bike budget has to stretch to beemers but the car budget only has to afford the cheapest in class? What’s wrong with white bandits, you’d get twice the bang for yer buck.

Or as someone else suggested: V-Stroms, would that get your fingers into some CD budget too?

Did your business case analyse time spent gridlocked in cars during the highest risk parts of the day vs higher effective performance offered by superior mobility of bikes?



Damn, mebe these patrol bikes aren’t such a good idea...

[baptist]

Do I get a couple?

How come the bike budget has to stretch to beemers but the car budget only has to afford the cheapest in class? What’s wrong with white bandits, you’d get twice the bang for yer buck.

Or as someone else suggested: V-Stroms, would that get your fingers into some CD budget too?

Did your business case analyse time spent gridlocked in cars during the highest risk parts of the day vs higher effective performance offered by superior mobility of bikes?



Damn, mebe these patrol bikes aren’t such a good idea...

Save money... stick the on Scorpio's ... Jokes aside they would work really well in rush hour traffic and around towns (save heaps on the cops budget)... and be of little use on the open road

[Jack Miller]

Well well, Jack, have I got an answer for you.

Back in the MoT days, the accountants dragged the R80RTs off the road because they cost 19c per KM to operate. That was quite a lot in 1991. A V3000 cost only 22c per km (not just petrol, but overall costs), but a car is cheaper for the road policing role i.e. 2 cops can fit in a car, so you need less of them.

I championed the reintroduction of the Chch Popo bikes in 2005, and we finally got them in 2007. I had to write a substantial business case. Out of interest, a vehicle is a vehicle, so to get 2 bikes, our district had to relinquish 2 cars. Since then they have cost a bloody fortune to keep them on the road. The reasons we got them were because the boss got sick of me nagging about it, and I promised him strategic advantages. I delivered, but at what has turned out to be a high financial price.

In this world of risk aversion, only the best gear will do, and that's damn dear. The bikes we have (R1200RT-P models) are great, but pricey to buy, fix and operate. E.g. A helmet costs about $1K, coz we don't buy junk, and they're a long term consumable.

It's all about money, Jacko, if that answers your question. In my mind they're worth it, for all the reasons you probably know, but the guy writing the cheques has his doubts.

Post me a list of questions, and I'll spend a month giving you some answers. Until then, know that it's basically hard and expensive to keep even a small bike fleet on the road, so largely, we don't.

Harumph.

Why so expensive?

[rastuscat]

Do I get a couple?

How come the bike budget has to stretch to beemers but the car budget only has to afford the cheapest in class? What’s wrong with white bandits, you’d get twice the bang for yer buck.

Or as someone else suggested: V-Stroms, would that get your fingers into some CD budget too?

Did your business case analyse time spent gridlocked in cars during the highest risk parts of the day vs higher effective performance offered by superior mobility of bikes?

Damn, mebe these patrol bikes aren’t such a good idea...

'ere we go.

The dept is supplied with vehicles under a gubbermint tender. If you want a vehicle, you write a spec stating what your requirments are, put it to tender, and see who bids for the business. It's all got to be transparent, accountable, blah blah blah.

When we bought beemers the tender had specified a bike bigger than 1000cc, shaft drive, specific luggage capacity, specific power output (electrical power, for running radios,neenars and lights), all that sort of thing. Basically, the specs ruled most vehicles out.

Back in the day we used to buy a civilian bike, then wreck its handling capability by hanging lights, sirens, luggage etc all over it. These days we specify a patrol package i.e. it has to be designed for the purpose. Out in the world that limits things. There's a Yamaha FJ, a Honda ST, the Beemers, all these are produced as a police special. The RT-P comes out of the factory with two batterys on the police model, a different wiring loom, it's quite different to the civilian model.

There are others too. Guzzi does one, and obviously Harley. Can you see us ever riding Harleys? Yeah right. Kawasaki does one, but the most common ones are the FJ, the ST and the RT-P. I personally like a police version of an F800ST, but's that coz I have a personal one. The police special of the 800St exists, they use them in the UK.

Anyway, the last tender was won by BMW, so they have been our supplier. We have 2 RT-Ps in Churchur. They are a fantastic bike, but it's fair to say that they cost a lot to keep on the road. E.G. a clutch runs in at $1300-$1500, as you have to basically dismantle the bike to replace it.

Before you blame the bike though, look at what we do with them. They were supposed to be a tourer on open roads. In Churchur, we give them harassment like frequent acceleration and braking up and down the speed bands. Overcoming the inertia of an RT on a dry clutch just plain wears the bikes out very prematurely. We do snap U-turns in heavy traffic, so we wear out the right hand side of tyres very quickly. It's a high wear environment.

In regard to advantages, we long ago identified that Churchur had a problem (bigger than most) with intersection crashes. We have more traffic lights per square km than most villages. Turning and crossing represents a high proportion of our crashes. It's difficult to enforce intersection rules in a car. Not impossible, just difficult. At the start of a shift, if given a set of car keys, a Popo will head out of the city centre, as congestion kills a cars strategic ability. Drive past someone on a cellphone in Manchester Street (before the EQ) and you have to sit in your car and watch the offender drive away. Now, on a bike, whip a a quick u-turn and write the ticket.

At intersections, a bike rider can park pretty much anywhere to observe problem traffic movements, apply the bells and whistles and get after transgressors. It's a lot harder to park a patrol car in a position to observe and apprehend bad drivers.

Having said that, as previously stated, to get 2 bikes we had to give up 2 cars. It's a national policy, not worth wasting time arguing. Remember that 10% fleet reduction? That's why Rotorua now has no bike. It meant they didn't have to give up a car. Certainly you wouldn't want to get rid of all your cars and have just bikes, as there are things that bikes can't do. I'd have to carry a spare helmet for the people I lock up. I can't carry equipment needed at a crash scene.

Out of interest, I note that in the last couple of years the tender has been talked about, and the specs have been broadened. Chains may be on the go, given the low maintenance with a Scottoiler. I'm hoping for one of these

http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-...ages/Home.aspx

Budget wise, I can't see it being beat..............

[Jack Miller]

I'm hoping for one of these
http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-...ages/Home.aspx
Budget wise, I can't see it being beat..............

For some other low cost alternatives look here:
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universa...torcycles.html
I particularly like this one:
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachme...motorcycle.jpg

[rastuscat]

For some other low cost alternatives look here:
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universa...torcycles.html
I particularly like this one:
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachme...motorcycle.jpg

The second one appears good, given it's low tyre wear.

I'll suggest it to my boss.

Over and under.

[oldrider]

Out of interest, I note that in the last couple of years the tender has been talked about, and the specs have been broadened. Chains may be on the go, given the low maintenance with a Scottoiler. ..............

Pro-oiler way out performs Scottoiler and would be more suitable for police bikes!

The problem is not the cost of the bikes, it's the cost of "official pigheadedness"!

They can't see past their dogma!

Bikes are not not cheap to run, that's true but I thought it was about traffic control and "road safety".

Keep up your campaign, it makes sense.