Gravel riding?

[merv]

I'm an old hand like Oscar and Motu and standing up on smooth gravel roads is something I'd never do. Standing up is for rough bumpy tracks or on slippery mud. Think what an enduro rider or a moto-x rider does. Gravel is more like flat track and you don't see those boys standing up.

[Woodman]

I stand a lot now, didn't used to cos it didn't feel like proper motorbike riding. Also depends on the surface and how twisty or rough it is or how much fuel or gear is on board. Also depends on how fast i wanna go. More often than when I am sitting most of my weight is on the pegs in readiness to stand.

[Ocean1]

I've noticed before that the more... mature exponents mostly stay on the seat in gravel. Guys that did their time on bikes with a foot of suspension seem to stand for preference.

Is that looking about right here?

[merv]

Ocean1 from what I've observed its not the suspension travel that differentiates it, but more the weight of the bike - it seems to be the guys on the heavy BMWs and the like that do it as if someone has told them its right, while they ride along on gravel slower than the guys on lighter dirt bikes who go zipping by happily sitting down.

[pete376403]

Standing up makes it easier to bail out when things go wrong.

[michael e]

OK gravel gurus.
On small bikes do you lean much on gravel or point with the front & shoot with the throttle?
Do you ride your smaller bikes differently from your big bikes?

if you all rode ktms you can ride hard albeit big or small bikes

[warewolf]

Somewhere we've heard all this before...

Basically as has been said, it depends on your definition of "gravel". I learned a lot from a trials then enduro champion, so I stand a lot; a fellow professional who came from MX also taught standing, although he preferred a smooth transition to seated under brakes for corners. Speedway riders sit on gravel for the same reason motocross riders stick their legs out: short and predictable track lets them get away with it. Doing either in unpredictable rough conditions is sub-optimal. Standing up gives you more control, but on speedway-smooth gravel you don't necessarily need that much control. (I also ride with one finger on each lever, even when things are gentle enough that I can sit down; perhaps especially then, since I've given up quite a bit of control by not standing, so I want to be able to either brake or clutch it to drain power pretty fast.)

Other advantages of standing up include being able to see further ahead, being able to see more directly what's under your front wheel, being able to use your legs to add to your bike's suspension, and being easier to balance despite the higher C-of-G.

Read Racing Dave's test of the Tiger XC in this month's KIWIRIDER, he explains why he thinks standing up is good, and gives the Tiger points for the ergos being able to be adjusted to suit that.

[bart]

I also find with standing, you always have a 'plan B'. It's so much easier to change direction mid corner, or if you have bail out, at least you're standing when you start going 'off road'.

[gav24]

I find it doent matter too much, as long as you can shift your weight as and when you need to. For me on the DR650, sitting on smooth fast gravel, standing when it dips and rolls along, so I can adjust quicker to any track changes.
Most of the time I sit in corners and lean the bike more than I do (gravel and worse only, opposite for tarseal), sitting on the edge of the seat a little, head over the bars and foot just off the peg sometimes. This is to push the bike down and not "out" of the corner, so is less likely to slide the front - unless there is a natural berm, then lean over with the bike and nail it!
I'm from a mainly MX background so I probably have my outside elbow up as well - but I've never looked!
The key thing is being in that "Neutral" position most of the time so you can easily lean forwards, backwards left or right.
My Adventure riding "neutral" standing is to have almost straight legs and head up high over the bars,
MX is with bent legs and head down closer to the bars - but still over them.
Enduro is somewhere in between, with head over the bars.
In my flat track racing days, I used to sit down with my head over the bars.
Can you spot the pattern yet... A neutral body position usually involves your head being over the bars ( off road anyway - bit different for road racing but that was another expensive few years of my life!)

Try riding sitting mid seat, with almost straight arms, then try to lean forwards over the front. Even in a straight line on a smooth road you have to pull with your arms, push with your legs, tense your stomach and slide your bum up the seat. - alot to do if you just felt the front twitch a bit, mid turn.
Try again standing up with straight legs, relaxed arms and head over the bars - easy eh?
If it all goes wrong and you want to get to the "recovery position" (sitting at front of seat with head over the bars. See how hard and how long it takes you from the sitting mid seat, straight arms position, compared to the standing up position. - again easy eh?

So in summary, sitting or standing? Too many factors that can change; bike, rider inside leg, terrain, tyres, pillion etc etc So answer is find the best "Neutral Position" and ride relaxed in the knowledge that weight transfer is easy from there, what ever the gravel, mud, road throws at you.

Phew, that was only meant to be a quick response!
(If anyone wants some training let me know - I have experience)

[Pikey]

Phew no wonder you make it look easy To think all I do is hang on and hope

[Hmmm]

Hmmmm, I'll have to digest all of that and then I suppose I'll have to suck it and see

[Motu]

I still ride trials,and I'm definitely a stand up guy off road - as far as I'm concerned if you sit down you've lost control.

Having ridden every single bike I've owned over 41 years on gravel,I probably have a different take on the subject. The best bikes I've ridden on gravel have been flattrackers,and that is how my current bike is set up - more weight on the front and a lower CG. A fat square section soft front tyre,and lots of trail,knobs are not required,it's the cross section and compound that give the grip. It slides predictably,hooks up and goes. I've experimented riding corners in the thick stuff between the wheel tracks,it's stable as...on or off throttle. Dirt bikes are shit in gravel compared to this thing.

[george formby]

My bike is less "adventure" & more "enthusiastic rambler" so I only stand when I am putting a lot of weight on the front into a corner & going downhill. It gives me better weight compensation & I am quicker on the bars & throttle if the front pushes & I need to slide the back. Non of which is my intention going into a corner....

I recently got back onto a proper dirt bike & because of less weight it feels a lot easier to stay on the seat & stick a foot out through corners, it's a lot more responsive on the throttle too which helps, the front wheel does not do much really, just waggles about when you gas it. The TDM front stays solidly on terra firma & takes a lot more work to get round a slippy corner safely.

I learned to ride on trials bikes so standing feels natural but for most of the time on gravel, unless I'm fanging it & want to slide, it's overkill.

[Devil]

I am relatively inexperienced with gravel (although i've made huge improvements more recently) and ride a big bike 1200GSA. I'm 5'9"/80kg and the bike is 255kg with a full tank.
If it's tight and twisty, definately standing up so I can move my weight on the bike.
If it's flowing and hard packed, sitting down.

I definately travel faster standing up.

Essentially being average height on a very large bike, i cannot move my weight around while sitting to make any sort of difference whatsoever.

Just fitted the Ohlins front shock on the barge, so we'll see if that helps with confidence on hard packed, or corrugated roads.

[Night Falcon]

When i had the 990 I used to stand alot more than I do now, especially in corners as the rear wheel did a lot of the steering so standing and leaning over the front (to aid front tire grip) while giving it the doctor was magic since my accident and down sizing to the 690 i tend to ride more MX style in to corners (sitting down forward on the seat, tight line, slow in and power out) I'm still standing a lot but I do mix it up quite a lot as well... I've had to learn (and still learning) to adapt my style to meet my limitations as a rider