A clean get away

[mangell6]

I agree with you Merv, bring OSH rules into law enforcement arena and then the HP would not be able to stop on the side of the road, stand by your door and write you a ticket as it would be too dangerous for them.

Mike

PS I see that OSH are wanting to insist that "safety harnesses" are used when bungy jumping!!!

[wkid_one]

PS I see that OSH are wanting to insist that "safety harnesses" are used when bungy jumping!!!

Ummm - I would kinda hope some from of safety harness is already being used???

[wkid_one]

Cops have been trying for years to avoid chases - with all sorts of gadgets. They have tried a small EMP to disable the electrics of the car - tried with a little RC Cart that shoots out under the car being pursued and also a hook fired in to the body work of the car. There are the mobile tyre strips that deflate the cars tyres. And the list goes on.

Ultimately - if someone is going to run, they are going to run - surely with the number of police on the road at the moment - the radio would be the best solution??

It would be interesting to see stats as to how many people did runners BEFORE the police adopted a zero tolerance to traffic offences. Before you may have stopped because you might have been able to talk your ticket down or even you way out of it - now you have a shit show. The fallout of zero tolerance??

[Timber020]

I had an conversation yesterday with a girl whose father is a cop, a while back they were on holiday going south on the desert road when they were overtaken by a driver at speed, driving erratically. The father (with whole family in the car) chased after him in the family ford fairmont. He rang the police by cell phone and they gave him permission to continue to chase as the car had been reported driving erratically since just south of tauranga. Speeds reached 180kmph, and eventually he got infront of the driver in waioru and was able to block him in and arrest him.

Im not sure to believe the story as surely the police wouldnt allow someone to illegally pursuit someone in that situation considering any charge would have to be dropped if the driver knew jack about the law. (oh the driver was drunk).

[Sycophant]

Ultimately - if someone is going to run, they are going to run - surely with the number of police on the road at the moment - the radio would be the best solution??

I used to listen to my scanner quite a bit (working from home, in the city, at night - there were lots of sirens, I tended to be curious) - when a chase starts, they are generally giving a running commentary - any units nearby will start moving to instersect, while units from further afield with 'spike strips' onboard will be directed into the area to lay spikes in the road.

If Eagle is in the air, and not tied up with a higher priority, it will be immediately dispatched to cover. As soon as it has a visual on the target, if there are any adverse conditions, pursuing units will drop back and allow the pursuit to be controled from the air.

Also, free dog units will be directed to the chase area in case the suspects bail from the car. Also, units on other channels will be notified in case the chase starts to head in their direction.

By and large, having never been in a chase but having listened to quite a few, I would say the cops try their hardest to keep things as safe as they can, and certainly defer to safer options as they become available.

Many of the chases I have heard have been called off for safety reasons.

It would be interesting to see stats as to how many people did runners BEFORE the police adopted a zero tolerance to traffic offences. Before you may have stopped because you might have been able to talk your ticket down or even you way out of it - now you have a shit show. The fallout of zero tolerance??

Most people stop for traffic tickets I'd say, zero tolerance or otherwise - by and large, most of the chases I have heard have involved suspect vehicles from crime scenes, stolen cars or dangerous or drunk drivers.

The two incidents in the last two days have involved people who were dangerous or drunk drivers.

Moments after passing uneventfully through a breath test stop last night, I heard screeching of tires behind me, and was nearly knocked off my bike by someone who decided he didn't want to pass through the test and figured a high-speed u-turn was in order. He passed me, about a foot and a half from my bike, travelling at least 75km/h. I was very pleased to see two patrol cars take off after him not more than 20 seconds later. I pulled over for a wee breather - an officer approached me, got my details (he saw the near-hit) and assured me they had chased the guy for a couple of minutes but he was stopped and arrested.

I'm quite pleased they didn't just give up.

[curious george]

And there is the problem.
If you had been hit, but the police later said to you in your hospital bed, "sorry, we had to call the chase off - he hit 75!"
Police are a limited resource like anything else, so more units and a chopper were unavailable. Is giving up the chase really the best thing?

[wkid_one]

Sycophant - you really need to get out more!!!

[Sycophant]

Sycophant - you really need to get out more!!!

I do my best - that last post was just after I got home from work, and after being awake for 23 hours or something. It was a little rambly, I'll admit.

[marty]

until one has been involved in chasing a driver that doesn't want to stop, and is taking risks to avoid being caught, i cannot see how anyone can say 'police shouldn't chase'. maybe police should stop chasing people on foot too, in case they twist an ankle and waste the ACC account.

the OSH risk rate for a cop standing on a checkpoint, with all safety measures in place, in daylight, is 4500. the level for OSH to consider a job being 'extreme risk', is 450.

maybe we just shouldn't get out of bed.

[spudchucka]

I think its time OSH stepped in because with cops behaving like they have, surely the hazard has been clearly identified and they (the Police) should be prosecuted for not taking all practicable steps to eliminate, minimise or isolate the hazard and they have clearly put lives at danger.

If its not safe for the public to drive over the speed limit (i.e they seem to imply you'll die immediately you break the limit) then this is clearly a hazard in the work place of the Police and they should not be allowed to speed at all.

How many other employers are prosecuted for deaths in their workplace by OSH? Its time these guys were treated the same.

If you really believe that the police should never speed then I guess you will accept them driving at 50 kph while your daughter is getting raped, your house done over, your car / bike stolen.

Police pursue drivers for all sorts of reasons, often the driver was speeding or committing some other minor traffic offence. Often however the driver may be a wanted / dangerous criminal that is on the run or the may be fleeing the scene of an armed robbery. At what point dose it the risk to public saftey because of the pursuit driving out-weigh the public interest of apprehending the offending driver.

Once police pusuits are banned the public will begin to moan that the polcice never try to catch criminals. Watch the number of armed robberies go up, it won't take long.

IMHO

[merv]

Main thing I'm getting at being a biker that's been around a while is how NZ has become so regulated. To see so many Highway Patrol cars on the road and knowing they ping you for minor speeding infringements and also knowing how tough the OSH laws have got I thought if OSH had a look at the Police it might make both sides see how silly tight regulation is. I know people have said before if OSH had a look at the army then they wouldn't be allowed to go to war - too may known hazards that can't be safely dealt with. The Police are probably the same.

The focus on you and me doing 111km/hr on perfectly good 4 lane motorways is just absurd - like I've said here before its a bit like they are trying to say that the second you exceed 100km/hr it is instantly unsafe. However, to me they should be looking out for clearly dangerous and inconsiderate driving but I never see a cop pull up the person who doesn't indicate or keep left properly.

That's why so many of us think it reeks of revenue gathering and not road safety as there is no logical reason why they should concentrate on pinging people on perfectly good straight roads. Where are they at school patrols and places like that?

The old days the Police were able to exercise some discretion over speed that people travelled at - not now under these new tight regulations. The officers would say they are only doing their job as per their instructions.

NZ will either become so regulated that eventually there will be a revolution or it will become so crowded with immigrants that we won't have any freedom and no where move anyway. Our ancestors came here with a pioneering spirit and that seemed to hold for a long time. 20 years ago I used to cringe at US behaviour with them afraid to move for fear of being sued - goddamn its here now, but its the Government doing it to us. Is this really what we want.

I would agree there need to be some law and regulation but it needs to have a practicality about it and a degree of reasonableness. I get annoyed that the extreme events seem to drive the rule making, but the extreme events are caused by those with no regard for the law at all. Example the Northland Triumph crash - the guy had no licence, bike had no warrant, no rego and he was carrying a gun and ammo with no licence. Tighten up any of the laws associated with any of those things like they are apt to do and it would make no difference to a guy like him who no regard for the law. They will just piss off further the 99.99% of reasonable people. Chances are they will lower the speed limit on parts of that road from 100 to 80 for example to "stop such terrible crashes" but the guy was going 200.

I don't believe tight laws stop real criminals and real crims are who the cops shoudl eb after.

My crack about OSH having a go at the Police I doubt would slow them down getting to my house any quicker as someone else said here - have a burglary and you might see them in two days - they are too busy revenue gathering.

[spudchucka]

I don't believe tight laws stop real criminals and real crims are who the cops shoudl eb after.

My crack about OSH having a go at the Police I doubt would slow them down getting to my house any quicker as someone else said here - have a burglary and you might see them in two days - they are too busy revenue gathering.

You are right, laws do not stop the real criminals because they will continue to offend regardless of the law. Example: If gun ownership was totally banned then only criminals would have guns. Who would be comfortable with this situation? Not me!!

But ask youself why police are keen to catch drivers who are unwilling to stop when required to do so; the fact that the driver is willing to continue breaking the law by refusing to stop suggests that the driver has other reasons to avoid any police contact. Most reasonable people will stop on demand even if the are totally pissed off.

As far as OSH is concerned, if they were to have a close look at the police then the organisation would probably be shut down. Stopping a vehicle to issue a ticket is one of the most dangerous things that police do on a daily basis. Look at the cop in Hastings that got shot recently, you just don't know who that driver is or what he may be capable of. Then consider some of the other duties of police: refereeing domestics, attending bar brawls & street disorder, gang confrontations, P labs, simply placing somone under arrest is fraut with danger for the police officer.

Slagging off at the cops is one of the easiest things to do and often it seems that everone has a horror story regarding some gung-ho copper; but honestly unless you have done the job, you have no idea of the operational issues involved or the risks taken by individual officers in order to protect individuals and their property.

Sorry for the long post.

[diss1dent]

I think its crazy. In my car I've been in the same situation a few times. Generally its the head start u get that gets u away. But thats all in the safety of a car, once you realise those sirens are after you boy can you feel your heart beating.

One of the times I know for certain the officer following me well exceeded 180 as I was doing 230~ and not really gaining any ground from him. I only got away with some crafty doubleing back, but I had to turn the car off with letting the turbo cool down when I pulled up someones drive while he passed by. I found out the next day this routed my turbo and ended up costing more in new parts than the ticket probably would've.

But you see it on tv etc all the time, even if you run and get caught theres bugger all more punishment than if you stopped str8 away. I mean you know you've lost you licence anyway, so why not give it a go.

And know with the changes I bet the max speed limits will be adheered to, at least for awhile till they realise that more and more people are just putting there foot down (so to speak) when they see the cop behind them.

Personally I'd only ever speed excessivly if I knew the road anyway, and I don't know about you guys, but the roads where I live are easily taken at twice the limit, including corners. (In a car anyway.) Your main concern is Joe Bloggs who will pull out of a side street in front of something doing excessive speed.

Hmm my ranting has gone

[Marmoot]

Heh, that makes sense
I'd say, if the penalty is roughly the same for trying to run away and for stopping, then more people would be tempted to try running away.
If we get punished for being a bad boy, can we get rewarded for being a good boy? But, then again, is it feasible? Heh heh

As far as police (improperly/unneededly) speeding, I find it very hard to control power. Rules cannot 100% control power, as power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Only if the cop wants to restrain himself then the rule can control the power. Thus, it is useless to talk about cops speeding or driving dangerously as it would get us nowhere. Eh?

[Racer X]

Adding specific guidelines to police policy will be the only thing LTSA / government / police / ACC have ever done to actually reduce the road toll. This is because the excessive and pedantic road rules such as "You must carry your license with you at all times" or "Do not exceed 100 kph.. EVER!" are turning ordinary people into criminals for NO REASON AT ALL. For example, me alone on the motorway at approx 10pm at 122kph = $170 fine and 30 (i think) demerits. Cop was hiding on an on-ramp which is why i didn't see him.
Or when they ping you for going over 100 k's while on a passing lane!
Some say this will incite more people to run.. but the people who always stopped still will, and the people who always ran still will as well, only now there will be less danger to innocent people from people being pushed to the limits by the tax collectors - er, oops I mean "police"

On a bike I have never stopped for them and I never will.
NZ is turning into a police state.