Honda or BMW tourer?

[martybabe]

What kind of protection does the RS give compared to the RT (of ST for that matter)? I travel year-round so wind and rain protection is a big factor. I like the idea of the RS as they are a lighter bike - but not sure whether so suitable for long hours riding in unpleasant weather. I've also ridden an R1100R and really liked the feel (and look) of those, but again a bit lacking in weather protection compared to the RT or ST.

The ST and the RT both have marginally better protection from the elements than the RS, where the RS scores though is in it's ability to track better in cross winds. I don't deliberately ride in the rain but the few deluges I've been caught in aboard the RS have been shrugged of admirably. The week spot would possibly be the hands on the RS, hence the hand guards and heated grips I guess.

The more sporty position of the RS allows you to tuck in better against adverse weather and the adjustable screens on both the Beemers are a major bonus over the ST. Turbulence from the screen on the ST was a major pain in the arse for me but a taller/shorter rider may be OK or an after market screen may solve this if it proves an issue.

I'd like to think that this is a design feature on the RS, but sadly I think it's just a fortunate coincidence that, at speed, the vortices and eddies emitted by the screen create a strong down draught stream on your visor enabling you to ride with clear vision even in the strongest downpour. Bizarre but a real bonus. Again this may depend on the screen position and the height of the rider so no guarantees there

All good choices for your circumstances but if I had to choose one for travelling the world in shit weather, I'd plump for the RT, every day capable and fun The RS, The ST comes in third in my rankings but that's third out of a trio of good bikes, all of them respectable contenders here.

[CRM]

The ST and the RT both have marginally better protection from the elements than the RS, where the RS scores though is in it's ability to track better in cross winds. I don't deliberately ride in the rain but the few deluges I've been caught in aboard the RS have been shrugged of admirably. The week spot would possibly be the hands on the RS, hence the hand guards and heated grips I guess.

The more sporty position of the RS allows you to tuck in better against adverse weather and the adjustable screens on both the Beemers are a major bonus over the ST. Turbulence from the screen on the ST was a major pain in the arse for me but a taller/shorter rider may be OK or an after market screen may solve this if it proves an issue.

I'd like to think that this is a design feature on the RS, but sadly I think it's just a fortunate coincidence that, at speed, the vortices and eddies emitted by the screen create a strong down draught stream on your visor enabling you to ride with clear vision even in the strongest downpour. Bizarre but a real bonus. Again this may depend on the screen position and the height of the rider so no guarantees there

All good choices for your circumstances but if I had to choose one for travelling the world in shit weather, I'd plump for the RT, every day capable and fun The RS, The ST comes in third in my rankings but that's third out of a trio of good bikes, all of them respectable contenders here.

Thanks for that. The ST that I rode had a Givi screen and the stillness was amazing - I rode with the visor up and no matter how fast I pushed it there was no turbulence or draft at all. The RT seemed to generate a draft down my back even at full height. Another RT I'd ridden seemed fine - no draft at all. I haven't ridden an RS as yet. You say the screens are adjustable - you mean electric like on the RT?

[martybabe]

Thanks for that. The ST that I rode had a Givi screen and the stillness was amazing - I rode with the visor up and no matter how fast I pushed it there was no turbulence or draft at all. The RT seemed to generate a draft down my back even at full height. Another RT I'd ridden seemed fine - no draft at all. I haven't ridden an RS as yet. You say the screens are adjustable - you mean electric like on the RT?

No, not electric, there is a twirly knob under the screen. It can be adjusted on the move if you're 'careful' perhaps better done when stopped. Low puts the wind on your chest and takes the strain off your wrists and high will keep most of mother nature at bay. Screens and fairings vary considerably as do the results. Noise and turbulence get on my tits on long journeys, I guess you just have to experiment for the best compromise eh.

[CRM]

Okay - silly question probably - but what age/mileage do you reckon the trade-off for cheap cost against massive repair costs for a BMW? My budget is $6k. There's a nice 1995 R1100RT for that with 113k's on it. Is it false economy to buy one that old? There's a recently imported 1993 R1100RS for $6500 with very low mileage. Is it better to go older with lower km or newer with higher km? Conventional wisdom would say newer with higher is better than older with lower as you get better technology and a newer bike with higher mileage hasn't been sitting around but running like it's supposed to.

This 1995 R1100R is very nice - lower km than the RT but not sure how it would be for wind protection - I do like these a lot though.

In the Honda camp there is this older 92 ST1100 with only 26k's, or this very tidy 96 ST1100 with 88k's for about the same price.

I am being tempted the BMW way but I don't want to buy myself a bundle of repair costs What do you think?

[martybabe]

Okay - silly question probably - but what age/mileage do you reckon the trade-off for cheap cost against massive repair costs for a BMW? My budget is $6k. There's a nice 1995 R1100RT for that with 113k's on it. Is it false economy to buy one that old? There's a recently imported 1993 R1100RS for $6500 with very low mileage. Is it better to go older with lower km or newer with higher km? Conventional wisdom would say newer with higher is better than older with lower as you get better technology and a newer bike with higher mileage hasn't been sitting around but running like it's supposed to.

This 1995 R1100R is very nice - lower km than the RT but not sure how it would be for wind protection - I do like these a lot though.

In the Honda camp there is this older 92 ST1100 with only 26k's, or this very tidy 96 ST1100 with 88k's for about the same price.

I am being tempted the BMW way but I don't want to buy myself a bundle of repair costs What do you think?

Of course I don't know any of these bikes so I can only give you a personal perspective but. If I was looking (with your criteria and budget) the RS,R, and the second ST would be on the short list.

The BMW 1100s have a good reputation for longevity and suffer less of the ills of some later models so if you think it's in good nick and has been serviced well it should be a safe bet. All bikes that age need a thorough going over though including a good test ride. They need servicing every 10;000 k and this can run quite expensive so the R for example will need $450-600 off you in short order.

The second ST looks a goodun but all we have to work on are photos so again, a five minute browse around the shiny paintwork isn't enough, service history WOF history, rust, scrapes, frame all need serious scrutiny. The first ST doesn't ring true to me from the photos, 26k, after market exhaust, shabby paint, it may well not be, but it looks like it could be, a high miler from the pics,hmmm, caution will Robinson.

I'd be looking at The RS and the second ST seriously. The R looks good but the weather protection you seek may be lacking, great bikes though.

Ultimately you're gonna have to pick and that's as it should be but I advise a looksee around the owners forums, common problems and solutions can be found therein, do your homework and good luck.

Out of interest, the RT, RS and ST, have all been used by the UK Police force in big numbers since ages ago, a harder life and testing ground for a bike I cannot imagine and the purchasers are fussy bastards, not afraid to ditch stuff that proves unsuitable. Norton commanders for instance came and went in the blink of an eye, relatively speaking.

[CRM]

Of course I don't know any of these bikes so I can only give you a personal perspective but. If I was looking (with your criteria and budget) the RS,R, and the second ST would be on the short list.

The BMW 1100s have a good reputation for longevity and suffer less of the ills of some later models so if you think it's in good nick and has been serviced well it should be a safe bet. All bikes that age need a thorough going over though including a good test ride. They need servicing every 10;000 k and this can run quite expensive so the R for example will need $450-600 off you in short order.

The second ST looks a goodun but all we have to work on are photos so again, a five minute browse around the shiny paintwork isn't enough, service history WOF history, rust, scrapes, frame all need serious scrutiny. The first ST doesn't ring true to me from the photos, 26k, after market exhaust, shabby paint, it may well not be, but it looks like it could be, a high miler from the pics,hmmm, caution will Robinson.

I'd be looking at The RS and the second ST seriously. The R looks good but the weather protection you seek may be lacking, great bikes though.

Ultimately you're gonna have to pick and that's as it should be but I advise a looksee around the owners forums, common problems and solutions can be found therein, do your homework and good luck.

Out of interest, the RT, RS and ST, have all been used by the UK Police force in big numbers since ages ago, a harder life and testing ground for a bike I cannot imagine and the purchasers are fussy bastards, not afraid to ditch stuff that proves unsuitable. Norton commanders for instance came and went in the blink of an eye, relatively speaking.

Yeah I've noticed all these bikes are common in Police work . I guess that is a great testimony to their longevity and usefulness...

I agree - the R probably won't provide the protection for what I'm wanting.

The first RT (the 95 with 113k's) is actually pretty good too. I looked at it and rode it a couple of weeks ago. The current owner has only done minor distance on it but it's been very well looked after by the previous owner - full records etc and he's added lots of nice touches. It goes and rides very well - rear tyre is getting a bit flat in the middle and will need replacing soon but apart from that seems pretty mint. So I'll check out the others down that way next week when i drop off my bike for the new owner - maybe the Black ST will impress of the White RS - if not I may go for that RT.

[DR650gary]

I rode my cousin's ST1100 when he first got it and it has now clocked up 150,000 kms. Feels just the same.

He rides it daily rain hail or shine and still loves it. He finds the weather protection awesome. I find the TDM900 better but if I was looking for a 500 km per tank motorcycle this would be it.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-410779128.htm

Go for it but please negotiate severely

However.......

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-422677853.htm

Close by and as the man said, you may thank him!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-369661627.htm

Now I'm just being naughty

[CRM]

I rode my cousin's ST1100 when he first got it and it has now clocked up 150,000 kms. Feels just the same.

He rides it daily rain hail or shine and still loves it. He finds the weather protection awesome. I find the TDM900 better but if I was looking for a 500 km per tank motorcycle this would be it.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-410779128.htm

Go for it but please negotiate severely

However.......

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-422677853.htm

Close by and as the man said, you may thank him!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-369661627.htm

Now I'm just being naughty

Yeah I've seen that ST at Colemans - it is very tidy. Might have another look when I'm heading south next week. I wondered about those triumphs . From what I've read they are more top heavy than the ST or RT - plus chain drive. Might have a look though as they are both local

[DR650gary]

Had a look at the Triumphs yet?

I have had shaft drive bikes and chain drive. Currently on chain drive with the TDM and the Raptor.

I have never had a bike long enough to replace chain and sprockets. I have done the job on a couple of my son's bikes and it is no big deal.

I did have to replace the shaft on my XS750 due to lack of service by a previous owner. That is one of the joys of buying older bikes, you are at the mercy of the previous owners. Luckily I had a couple of parts bikes for the XS or the job could have been very expensive.

I have fitted a Scott oiler to all of the past 5 bikes and remove it when I sell and install on the next. Both or our bikes have them now and I find them easy to maintain.

I have never owned a Trophy, an ST or a BMW Tourer, but I have ridden them and found the only one that was really a motorcycle was the Trophy. The others were just mile munchers so if that is what you are looking for, go for it.

I gave a Sprint a long hard look and prolonged test ride but at 6 ft plus, I found it hard to fit my knees behind the fairings but as a bike, it was awesome.

[CRM]

Had a look at the Triumphs yet?

I have had shaft drive bikes and chain drive. Currently on chain drive with the TDM and the Raptor.

I have never had a bike long enough to replace chain and sprockets. I have done the job on a couple of my son's bikes and it is no big deal.

I did have to replace the shaft on my XS750 due to lack of service by a previous owner. That is one of the joys of buying older bikes, you are at the mercy of the previous owners. Luckily I had a couple of parts bikes for the XS or the job could have been very expensive.

I have fitted a Scott oiler to all of the past 5 bikes and remove it when I sell and install on the next. Both or our bikes have them now and I find them easy to maintain.

I have never owned a Trophy, an ST or a BMW Tourer, but I have ridden them and found the only one that was really a motorcycle was the Trophy. The others were just mile munchers so if that is what you are looking for, go for it.

I gave a Sprint a long hard look and prolonged test ride but at 6 ft plus, I found it hard to fit my knees behind the fairings but as a bike, it was awesome.

Haven't looked at the Triumphs - reading up about them it sounds like they are reasonably tall - fine for 6 footers but I'm a bit shorter and one of my main desires is to get a bike that's lower seat height than my Transalp or the VFR800 I had before that or the VStrom before that. Tall top-heavy bikes - especially when fully loaded - can be a real handful stopping or starting in awkward spots after hours of riding when you are tired and cramped or when you are wet and cold if you are a bit short in the appendages.

I've had Scott-Oilers on two bikes now and never quite had them work right - either under-oil or over oil and make a mess on the driveway - so shaft is also a priority. So Beemer is in number 1 spot for me at present with Honda close behind - just depends what the best deal is that I can find.

[CRM]

Had a look at the Triumphs yet?

I have never owned a Trophy, an ST or a BMW Tourer, but I have ridden them and found the only one that was really a motorcycle was the Trophy. The others were just mile munchers so if that is what you are looking for, go for it.

Eating my words about the Trophy I finally went and had a look on Sunday afternoon - turns out the guy lives about two streets away from me and I used to do work for him . I sat on it and it felt like a good fit - not tall and top heavy at all. Sounded good, looked good, 49000km and 2002 model so I took if for a ride... - very nice - easy to handle, heaps of grunt and character...

So I made him and offer and we negotiated and I pick it up on Wednesday when I get back from meeting the guy with my Transalp.

So thanks for the prompt... yes it has a chain (and a Scott-oiler under the number plate - hopefully set up properly) - but it's got more grunt that the ST or RT and is about 50kg lighter, with almost as good a fairing - full panniers - and better looking in my opinion than the very germanic beemer and the somewhat dated ST1100. So can't wait to get home on Wednesday and get better acquainted with it. It just made more sense in the end - for the same as I paid for it an ST or RT would either have twice the mileage or be 5 years older - and the Trophy is a better fit for me - a no-brainer. So very happy thanks .

[Hitcher]

I don't really get ST1300s. And I've owned one. Yes they have a great headlight. When they fall over the fairing bumpers keep the panniers off the ground. They're reasonably fuel efficient for such a whale. And Honda always has them on "special".

But:

• They're heavy
• They're badly troubled by crosswinds
• That cam whine drives me nuts
• They look shit without those panniers on
• They have odd-ball tyre sizes. A few years ago that 18" front was scarcer than rocking horse shit
• You need two sets of keys to open your panniers when you're touring
• The rearview mirrors are a bit of a trick
• Your pillion sits quite high
• Linked brakes aren't everybody's cup of tea.

I've also owned a Yamaha FJR1300 which I rate more highly than an ST1300, despite it having a slightly smaller fuel tank.

Why?

• It's 40kg lighter
• It has standard tyres
• It looks like a motorcycle without its panniers on
• You only need one key to open both panners when you're touring
• It's not overly bothered by crosswinds
• Your pillion will feel more like they're part of the bike
• It has the best 1300cc motorcycle engine ever made
• It has R1-sourced brakes which are just fekking awesome
• Compared with an ST1300 it's very sports and very tourer.

But hey, I understand that for the purposes of this thread there are only two choices and the FJR isn't one of them. Just like there are only two brands of motorcycle tyres, Pirellis and the other one.

[DR650gary]

So thanks for the prompt...

- and the Trophy is a better fit for me - a no-brainer. So very happy thanks .

I looked at one for my son and I liked it. Would have got it but he decided to go for a slightly less touring oriented bike and bought an FZ1 as he able to play with it and modify it a bit. He now has 2 of them

Glad you got the bike for you and thanks for the reply.

I also have my Scottoiler behind a square number plate on the TDM. It needs resetting when the temperature changes dramatically, just a 5 minute job, and different oils flow at a different rate so you need to adjust the dial to regulate it.

Hope we see you on the road some time.

[CRM]

I looked at one for my son and I liked it. Would have got it but he decided to go for a slightly less touring oriented bike and bought an FZ1 as he able to play with it and modify it a bit. He now has 2 of them

Glad you got the bike for you and thanks for the reply.

I also have my Scottoiler behind a square number plate on the TDM. It needs resetting when the temperature changes dramatically, just a 5 minute job, and different oils flow at a different rate so you need to adjust the dial to regulate it.

Hope we see you on the road some time.

He's not selling them is he? There is someone in wellington with two for sale here: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-412459763.htm

Actually looks like a great deal - especially for the faired one with lower km at $4400 - I was tempted to look at them before I found the Trophy. Maybe he could add some more to his collection - they sound like pretty stunning machines for someone who wants something a bit more hoon-like.

[CRM]

I don't really get ST1300s. And I've owned one. Yes they have a great headlight. When they fall over the fairing bumpers keep the panniers off the ground. They're reasonably fuel efficient for such a whale. And Honda always has them on "special".

But:

• They're heavy
• They're badly troubled by crosswinds
• That cam whine drives me nuts
• They look shit without those panniers on
• They have odd-ball tyre sizes. A few years ago that 18" front was scarcer than rocking horse shit
• You need two sets of keys to open your panniers when you're touring
• The rearview mirrors are a bit of a trick
• Your pillion sits quite high
• Linked brakes aren't everybody's cup of tea.

I've also owned a Yamaha FJR1300 which I rate more highly than an ST1300, despite it having a slightly smaller fuel tank.

Why?

• It's 40kg lighter
• It has standard tyres
• It looks like a motorcycle without its panniers on
• You only need one key to open both panners when you're touring
• It's not overly bothered by crosswinds
• Your pillion will feel more like they're part of the bike
• It has the best 1300cc motorcycle engine ever made
• It has R1-sourced brakes which are just fekking awesome
• Compared with an ST1300 it's very sports and very tourer.

But hey, I understand that for the purposes of this thread there are only two choices and the FJR isn't one of them. Just like there are only two brands of motorcycle tyres, Pirellis and the other one.

Yeah I would have gone for an FJR1300 but out of the price range. The Trophy is also lighter and more powerful than the ST - in fact it fits most of the points you list above except for the brakes and maybe the pillion position and it's not a Yamaha - haven't taken her out on it yet but it looks higher than an FJR.