The Election - who among us will vote National?

[Robert Taylor]

Because you felt they did not have enough money?

New Plymouth is the most marginal National held electorate in the country and because instinctively I dislike unionists like Andrew Little anything that will help in any small way to keep him from dislodging Jonathan Young is a good thing.

[SPman]

I don't even know who to vote for,Phil Goff doesn't really seem like a leader,John Key does,but I don't like his policies....

If you are voting on what seems to be a leader.....there is no hope. John Key knows how to play a mainstream crowd - he's someone who likes the spotlight -full of shit, all show and no substance. Phil doesn't come across anywhere near as well as JK, even though he generally knows what he's talking about, he doesn't seem to have the ability to sway a mainstream crowd.......anyway, unless you are in their respective electorates, you won't be voting for either, directly.

[Robert Taylor]

If you are voting on what seems to be a leader.....there is no hope. John Key knows how to play a mainstream crowd - he's someone who likes the spotlight -full of shit, all show and no substance. Phil doesn't come across anywhere near as well as JK, even though he generally knows what he's talking about, he doesn't seem to have the ability to sway a mainstream crowd.......anyway, unless you are in their respective electorates, you won't be voting for either, directly.

First past the post was certainly a clearer system, that is why I voted for its continuance and will do so again in the referendum attached with our voting papers.

But are we all not collectively hypocrites?

-we all want to avoid taxes as much as possible

-we all want our goods as cheap as possible but turn a blind eye to the fact many goods are produced with sweatshop labour. And that in turn puts many of our own folk out of work, or has turned them into ''serfs'' working for big box retailers peddling all this stuff.

-with respect to ACC levies on motorcyclists many of us are not doing our bit by wearing effective safety gear and being highly visible. Ive always been a little at odds why black is a predominant colour of choice when it is one of the least visible colours???? Also the scooter fraternity needs a real shake about the casual nature of clothing they wear. If you fall off and are wearing jandals and short sleeves why should you still qualify for ACC?

-we all want high wages and full employment despite the very real inequities of overseas competition and the distortional effects of exchange rate

-we all expect the Government to pick up the pieces despite grizzling about the taxes we pay

And yet so many of us are against offshore ironsand mining and deep sea drilling, commercial operations that if handled properly by any Government would potentially bring a lot of wealth to this country, as have minerals in Australia. I am still filthy at the needless levies and stealth taxes the last Labour Government inflicted on our primary wealth producers and THEREFORE employers.

So how does all of that work?

Collectively we are also paying dearly for the after effects of a worldwide banking system that was totally out of control, too much easy credit and massively inflated house prices due to huge and un-needed property speculation. Now making housing totally unaffordable / unattainable for most young people trying to get onto the property ladder, that is really sad. Add to that cradle to the grave welfare that ultimately is unsustainable. Look at the Greeks, they have been totally out of control and in a bubble. Now that its proven that their extremely liberal systems are unsustainable they are grizzling big time, morons.

Ultimately no-one wants any pain or a dose of reality. Because of that and our mickey mouse electoral system we actually dont get the Government we need. Whilst not perfect the National party is the lesser of the main evils ''on offer''

I cannot recall its name but there was a manifesto circulating some months back for a new Conservative party, it wont of course gain any traction but much of what it said really resonated.

[Smifffy]

The biggest problem with MMP is this 'strategic voting' bullshit the minor parties suck the morons into. If everybody voted for the same party as their preferred candidate was from then it would be possible to get a clear mandate from the electorate.

Instead kiwis want to have their cake and eat it too.

"Ooh I'll vote for Josephine Bloggs because she seems like a really nice person and has done so much in our community over the years, I think she'll make a really good MP. But I don't really like the policies of that party she's with and their leader is a bit of tool, I think the Bill & Ben party have some good ideas, I'll give them my party vote"

Tick.

[bluninja]

Ultimately no-one wants any pain or a dose of reality. Because of that and our mickey mouse electoral system we actually dont get the Government we need. Whilst not perfect the National party is the lesser of the main evils ''on offer''

I cannot recall its name but there was a manifesto circulating some months back for a new Conservative party, it wont of course gain any traction but much of what it said really resonated.

Based on what is available I'm expecting to vote National (maybe my vote could swing it in Taranaki ) I hate MMP with a passion, the MPs and the government become divorced and les acountable to the electorate. I'd be happy with a 2 house legislature with first past the post making the government and proportional representation for a second house that provides a brake, or a check and balance against excesses of a large majority government.

I read the conservative leaflet, lots of things resonate until you consider them more carefully. I guess with ACT in a shambles there is room for a more right wing organisation to hoover up votes; if not now, maybe in a few years time.

[Usarka]

I'd be happy with a 2 house legislature with first past the post making the government and proportional representation for a second house that provides a brake, or a check and balance against excesses of a large majority government.

I thought it was fairly obvious in the very recent debt crisis in the US that type of system doesn't work when it really needs to.

[bluninja]

I thought it was fairly obvious in the very recent debt crisis in the US that type of system doesn't work when it really needs to.

That would be because they have only 2 parties and one controlling one house and one the other is a recipe for disaster. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's likely that there will be more than 2 parties sitting as MPs and with MMP there is unlikely to be an overall majority.

There are many other governments with 2 legislative chambers that work well for the majority of situations; most of them have more than 2 political parties.

[sleemanj]

"Ooh I'll vote for Josephine Bloggs because she seems like a really nice person and has done so much in our community over the years, I think she'll make a really good MP. But I don't really like the policies of that party she's with and their leader is a bit of tool, I think the Bill & Ben party have some good ideas, I'll give them my party vote"

That's the entire point of MMP, and if electorate MP's actually, you know, worked for their electorate, it would work much better.

Vote for the person you think will best represent your specific electorate and the issues that face it. Vote for the party you think will best represent the country as a whole. Unfortunately, MPs, electorate or list, don't give a shit about the people, by and large. Once the vote is cast, they are free and easy for 3 years.

If I was able to make changes...
1. Electorate MPs should be excluded from ALL cabinet positions. Their JOB is to represent the electorate, not be Associate Deputy Co-Minister Of something.
2. Electorate MPs must spend X days per week in their local office.
3. Any bills that are to be passed, Electorate MPs should be required to actively canvas their electorate to solicit opinions, and they should not be tied to party lines, in effect, all voting by Electorate MPs should be treated as a conscience vote.

Frankly, I'd like if Electorate MPs were required to divorce themselves from parties totally, only independents were permitted to stand. It'd be a bit too hard and costly to implement though I think.

[Smifffy]

It was meant to be the point of MMP, yes. People that believe it are the kind that want their cake and eat it too. However the weasels get in and do nothing but toady up to the leader and the party. Go for a ride around your electorate, most "vote for me" signs will have the party slogan/policy/jingle on them, not 'Retain maternity services for Wetewhukawe', or 'Fix the road to Shelbyville', or 'I want to save this school'.

You kind of expect the totally un-elected morons off the list to toe the party line, since toadying up to the party is the only way they get in in the first place.

Alamein Kopu anyone? Anyone? Did they ever get the furniture from her electorate office back? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...bjectid=125056

That's the entire point of MMP, and if electorate MP's actually, you know, worked for their electorate, it would work much better.

Vote for the person you think will best represent your specific electorate and the issues that face it. Vote for the party you think will best represent the country as a whole. Unfortunately, MPs, electorate or list, don't give a shit about the people, by and large. Once the vote is cast, they are free and easy for 3 years.

If I was able to make changes...
1. Electorate MPs should be excluded from ALL cabinet positions. Their JOB is to represent the electorate, not be Associate Deputy Co-Minister Of something.
2. Electorate MPs must spend X days per week in their local office.
3. Any bills that are to be passed, Electorate MPs should be required to actively canvas their electorate to solicit opinions, and they should not be tied to party lines, in effect, all voting by Electorate MPs should be treated as a conscience vote.

Frankly, I'd like if Electorate MPs were required to divorce themselves from parties totally, only independents were permitted to stand. It'd be a bit too hard and costly to implement though I think.

[Gremlin]

There is an easier way...

Other small countries in Europe do it... govern by referendum...

[Naki Rat]

I have a personal assurance from Chris Hipkins, my local MP and Labour spokesperson for ACC, that they will be removing the ACC component on registration on ALL vehicles.

Bad news = it will have to come from somewhere, and the price of gas will have to go up to cover it.

Sounds like a goer. Bikes use far less fuel than those with more wheels, and you can ride without rego but not without petrol

[SMOKEU]

I'm not voting National because John Key is a jew.

[dmc]

Sounds like a goer. Bikes use far less fuel than those with more wheels, and you can ride without rego but not without petrol

I agree, they could put the price of petrol up 10c a litre to cover ACC from rego and I'd still pay less ACC than I do now.

[Robert Taylor]

I agree, they could put the price of petrol up 10c a litre to cover ACC from rego and I'd still pay less ACC than I do now.

I dont like the chances of that with the most recent motorcycle fatalities, its certainly bad pr.

[Katman]

-with respect to ACC levies on motorcyclists many of us are not doing our bit by wearing effective safety gear and being highly visible. Ive always been a little at odds why black is a predominant colour of choice when it is one of the least visible colours????

There'd be no problem with wearing black if the people wearing it trained their eyes to compensate for the lack of seeing in others.

I believe we're within spitting distance of being forced to wear hi-vis. If we are then we only have ourselves to blame.

For years we've taken the easy path of blaming the other person for not seeing us instead of admonishing ourselves for not reading the situation adequately.