If Labour wins the election I'll have to pay my ACC levy

[BoristheBiter]

I doubt they'll remove the Earner's Premium ACC Levy on our incomes

I doubt if they would remove any, just charge us more.

[98tls]

Cry me a fucking river with this ACC shit,things could be worse eh,there could be no bikes no anything bar a goat and desert,what to do eat it or shag it?if regos that big a deal sell the bike or sell the mrs,either way do something eh.

[JimO]

if Labour gets in you will have bigger things to worry about

[merv]

Similar to a few that have commented above I've always been into the idea of individual accident insurance and the premium should be based on your track record and lowered by no claim bonuses just like other insurances. No matter how many vehicles me and my wife own or use why the hell should we be paying ACC premiums on them all. Its the nut behind the wheel or the handlebars that influences the risk and less so the vehicle itself.


So insure the person that's what I say, but funny, no party seems to have that as part of its manifesto.

[MSTRS:Me]

And what about the non acc paying sports, off road, cycling etc? who covers them?
My biggest claim came from running, no acc on that.

But if you want the price of fuel to go up to $10 a liter that's your call, but don't think for one minute it will be cheaper to run a vehicle.

So if you want a no fault system you bill everyone the same. then it will be cheaper to run a car or bike, petrol is cheaper and you will get more take home pay.

Try to keep up...
ACC levies are paid in, and for, 4 areas. Work accidents (Employer levy). Leisure accidents (Earner levy). Motoring accidents (Vehicle rego/levy). Non-earner accidents (General taxation - for un-employed and children).

For the purposes of this thread (and presumeably, every other thread about levies) we are concerned about the Vehicle levy, as covered through regos. If that levy was removed from regos and shifted to fuel, the amount required to replace rego-based would be in the nature of $0.10/litre. As there is already $0.099/litre at the pump, this collection method would be super easy to implement by simply changing the collected figure to (say) $0.20/litre. The bonus would be that all off-roaders and boaties would then be contributing too. Where do you get $10/litre from? The downside comes in the form of electric vehicles....

Are you suggesting that every man, woman and child in NZ is sent an invoice by ACC once a year to cover any/every form of accident?

As for your running injuries...You, and we, paid for those as an earner. Or we paid for your un-employed arse...

[ducatilover]

http://www.dol.govt.nz/initiatives/w...nce-rating.pdf

Nick has lots of ideas, like introducing compulsory third party insurance, and reducing the amount paid via fuel, moving the majority of the load to a lump sum payment.

What's a spirit levy?

[Banditbandit]

True .. but the cost to ACC of car accidents per accident outweighs the cost of bike accidents per bike accident ...

o rly??????????

I'd have to go back to the information I used for a submission about the levy increases .. and I don't have it so I'll need a bit of time to recreate it ... But it was sometyhing like this ..

A motorcycle accident on average costs ACC around an average of $19,000 per person involved ...

A car accident costs around and average $21,000 per person involved ...

It's not hard to work out that two people on a bike that crashes will cost an average of $38,000 total. And that's the highest the average will be.

Two people in a car that crashes = $42,000, three people = $63,000 and four people in a car $84,000.

(Note that this is about averages, not about the high costs of some accidnets v the low costs of others ...)

[BoristheBiter]

Try to keep up...
ACC levies are paid in, and for, 4 areas. Work accidents (Employer levy). Leisure accidents (Earner levy). Motoring accidents (Vehicle rego/levy). Non-earner accidents (General taxation - for un-employed and children).

For the purposes of this thread (and presumeably, every other thread about levies) we are concerned about the Vehicle levy, as covered through regos. If that levy was removed from regos and shifted to fuel, the amount required to replace rego-based would be in the nature of $0.10/litre. As there is already $0.099/litre at the pump, this collection method would be super easy to implement by simply changing the collected figure to (say) $0.20/litre. The bonus would be that all off-roaders and boaties would then be contributing too. Where do you get $10/litre from? The downside comes in the form of electric vehicles....

Are you suggesting that every man, woman and child in NZ is sent an invoice by ACC once a year to cover any/every form of accident?

As for your running injuries...You, and we, paid for those as an earner. Or we paid for your un-employed arse...

Fuck you are a patronizing wanker.

[MSTRS:Me]

Fuck you are a patronizing wanker.

Why, thank you. Simplistic, short-on-facts, drivel, earned today's lesson.

[davereid]

Are you suggesting that every man, woman and child in NZ is sent an invoice by ACC once a year to cover any/every form of accident?

I was interested in determining a few things from A.C.C.. In particular i asked them for information around how much it cost to administer the continuous vehicle licensing regime, as I thought high levies would be resulting in quite a high number of people putting vehicles on-and-off hiold, and that this would actually be quite an expensive exercise.

I also asked for information on how much ACC actually collect in levies as opposed to how much they would collect if they were all paid.

ACC refused my OIA request, basically saying they simply didn't know.

Other than the fact its management 101 to know the cost of your invoicing, and your actual collection rate, and that ACC didnt even know this, I wasn't surprised at the outcome.

I have long suspected that ACC want to head in a few directions, and some of it is hinted at by that document I published earlier in the thread. Other than the fact that the Minister says he is supportive of an increase in motor spirit (fuel) levies on one page and then writes it off a few pages later, I got the following feeling from the document.

(1) If ACC Levies are collected on fuel, while it simple and effective, its difficult to see how the account can be opened up to private competition. So the continued reliance on a vehicle based levy signals an interest in opening the motor vehicle account to competition, indeed those exact words are used in the document.

(2) The first step in this would be for ACC to invoice you directly. So you would have to show you had purchased your insurance before you could get a vehicle licensed. (Possibly done electronically like a WOF).

(3) Then the account could be opened up. You could go to Tower or State or your own provider in competition to A.C.C.


However, even though you could purchase insurance in this manner, its likely that it would not result in good drivers or riders getting lower premiums. And of course this would require linking of drivers to vehicles which is also unlikely.

Remember ACC legislation prohibits consideration of liability. It only allows consideration of the account cost.

So even if you could demonstrate that you were very unlikely to be liable for an accident as you are a skilled driver, you would gain no benefit.

However, if the insurer could demonstrate that you had a vehicle that was more safe than another vehicle then you may be able to get a discount.

So that 5 star crash rated Mercedes or Volvo, even if badly driven, would be cheaper to insure than a 0 star motorcycle driven by someone with a perfect record.


My Bet ?

You will get an invoice from ACC Directly in the future, and it will be cheaper for 5 star vehicles than 0 star ones. Its the only thing that fits all the scenarios in that document.

[BoristheBiter]

Why, thank you. Simplistic, short-on-facts, drivel, earned today's lesson.

Don't you mean learned, and no I have always known you are a patronizing wanker.

[MSTRS:Me]

Don't you mean learned, and no I have always known you are a patronizing wanker.

Nope, and you don't know me at all, my learn-ed friend. Any more than I know you are a mentally-challenged fuckwit.
[ENDS]

[Newbi]

Personally I'd just like to see a country that holds politicians accountable for what they say. They should not be allowed to spout a load of shite just to get votes and then do none of the things they promised. If you believe anything they tell you, then more fool you I say.

[MSTRS:Me]

...
(3) Then the account could be opened up. You could go to Tower or State or your own provider in competition to A.C.C.
...

Has it not always been National govts that have 'tinkered' the most with ACC since it's inception?
I'm guessing that at the most basic level, they hate it's socialistic principles.
ACC's strength has always been that it's universal. Selling off (or opening up to competition) would be, in the long term, a mortal wound. Insurance is under-pinned by the notion of fault, and companies only pay out when liability is admitted or can be proved. Going that way is shaky ground.
I'm worried that we'll all be tied up in court, trying to get compensation from someone who 'opted out'. Welcome to Little America, with it's ambulance-chasers etc. Precisely what ACC was set up to avoid.

[BoristheBiter]

Has it not always been National govts that have 'tinkered' the most with ACC since it's inception?
I'm guessing that at the most basic level, they hate it's socialistic principles.
ACC's strength has always been that it's universal. Selling off (or opening up to competition) would be, in the long term, a mortal wound. Insurance is under-pinned by the notion of fault, and companies only pay out when liability is admitted or can be proved. Going that way is shaky ground.
I'm worried that we'll all be tied up in court, trying to get compensation from someone who 'opted out'. Welcome to Little America, with it's ambulance-chasers etc. Precisely what ACC was set up to avoid.

ACC strength has been its ability to charge everyone more than once.
This was proven when National privatised the work aspect of ACC.
I know for our work, we changed to @work as our provider, ACC suddenly came up with lower premiums that before.

I'm not saying I want it all to be private but there must be a better way of calculating the costs and for some reason a little competition seems to be the easy answer.