Oh those naughty motorcyclists

[pete376403]

Sorry to bore you.

We attend hundreds of crashes each month where the offending driver says he/she didn't see the other vehicle.

I guess it could all just be a coincidence.

But I think not.

I dealt with a young guy who U-turned across the path of a red XR6 this week. He wasn't blind, just blind to something he didn't expect to see.

Well of course they all say that. You really expect the person who's *probably* at fault to say something like "yeah i saw it but it's only a motorbike and I''m in my car and fully insured so, what the hell"?

[caseye]

You really don't know HOW CLOSE TO THE ACTUAL TRUTH YOUR WORDS ARE DO YOU? They do see us, believe me, they simply don't perceive us as a big enough threat to stop, or give way to, for!

[warewolf]

Do you have any evidence that riding with a headlight on makes you safer ?
...
Headlights on is just more drivel from the uneducated we love you lot at the MOT.

You are on the ball. There is no evidence. I was in Aussie when the lights-on thing went down. I paid for a copy of the Victorian's report into it, the most comprehensive one done on motorcycle safety and conspicuity done in this part of the world. Much of it is quite interesting reading on the matter. A few things to note from the report (which I've written before):

• there is no evidence locally nor world-wide that lights-on improves motorcycle safety. None.
  Let me clarify that by saying that there are as many indicators as there are contra-indicators, so it is a neutral result.
• studies about DRLs are mostly non-transferable to Australasia because we are much closer to the equator and have much more intense ambient light
• approaching lights ruin your distance and speed perception
• with the sun low at your back, lights-off creates a visible shadow, lights-on hides you. A low-off-low flash can be much more effective than a low-high-low flash.
• voluntary use of lights-on was at 80% and it would take 20+ years of fleet turnover of new hard-wired lights-on motorcycles to reach that same point
• various jurisdictions world-wide prohibit daytime lights-on for motorcycles, for safety/conspicuity reasons
• trains have 60,000 candlepower lights at the front and run on predictable tracks clearly marked where they cross roads. Lots of people die on level crossings each year...

As such, they strongly recommended against implementation of lights-on, instead backing an education campaign to encourage appropriate use.

[warewolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inattentional_blindness

It's hard to imagine, but once you understand it, you'll wonder how to solve it.

And so, how the fcuk is hi-vis gear going to make a difference, if the problem is not visibility per se but perception? ACC and our $34.50 crew seem pretty convinced about that one - are you gonna push your barrow to them and tell them they're wrong?!

[warewolf]

By way of unscientific evidence, I used to cycle a lot at night (quite fast) and got fed up with people pulling out in front of me. My thinking was as above, so I mounted two 1W LED lights about 20cm apart on my bars and set them both to a steady beam (flashing is harder to judge speed), angled very slightly down so as not to dazzle. I reckon I had about an 80% reduction in emergencies as a result.

At night I use a helmet-mounted HID 75W halogen equivalent - they see me alright!! If I think they are a risk to me I'll dazzle them until they aren't - usually they stop and shield their eyes Quite some satisfaction in getting them to behave and change their 'you are little people' attitude, I must admit.

Edit: So I ride assuming that I have not been noticed until I see clear evidence to the contrary. And then I still don't actually trust them.

This. 100%

[pete376403]

You really don't know HOW CLOSE TO THE ACTUAL TRUTH YOUR WORDS ARE DO YOU? They do see us, believe me, they simply don't perceive us as a big enough threat to stop, or give way to, for!

Oh I believe it all right. Threat perception is the thing, after all how often will a car driver pull out in front of a group of patched gang members (with or without lights on)?

[chasio]

So does this mean that those pesky Hardly riders might be onto something in bolting on those hideous side lights?

I reckon they probably are. Plus there is the threat aspect: HD are associated with gangs and they won't know you're a friendly IT Manager (low priority) and not a dangerous Mongrel Mobster (high priority) until after you have ridden past them.

Now, where did I put my tassles?

Chasio

PS - You're most welcome

[Brian d marge]

The law that makes it an offence to forget to switch your light during the day on or have a bulb blow during the day only applies to motorcycles manufactured after the stated date. If you are on a 1979 or older motorcycle you cannot be ticketed for lights off during the day. Presumably neither can a motorist who pulls out on a motorcyclist riding an older bike claim (to a court) that the accident was the motorcyclists fault because their headlight was not on!

I have now twice been inconvenienced by the harrassment campaign referred to in the press release. I can assure you at the second stop, (same place and time on my commute) that the crew at the checkpoint did not meet with the Police spokespersons claimed "very positive response" from me. You don't see every passing motorist or cyclist stopped during peak hour traffic for this sort of harrassment.

Exactly how does repeatedly pulling a 50 year old licenced rider, dressed properly for riding, with 33 years riding experience on a registered, warranted Vespa out of a busy peak hour traffic flow "encouraging both car drivers and motorcycle riders to respect each other"?

You said it - "Yeah right".

Michael

Riding a Vespa, done deal right there , just lucky it wasn't a Honda ......


on a side note, 49 people ( out of 700 odd ) were naughty , of that ...35 were on the wrong bit of paper ???? oh and one was pissed ,

1, in 700 were pissed ,

terrible terrible crime on them streets , shocking , something should be done,

wonder how many suffer from poverty related illness......


Stephen

[Howie]

[*]trains have 60,000 candlepower lights at the front and run on predictable tracks clearly marked where they cross roads. Lots of people die on level crossings each year...

Isn't candle power an older style measurement? and just measures the lights intensity? eg Candlepower is most useful as a measure of illumination in a particular direction, not the total illumination which would be better described in lumens.

Train Head/ and ditchlights(the low ones at sides on the lead end) are basiclly a headlight with a focused beam, which is same problem with the average bike headlight in that if you are directly in front of it it stands out quite bright, but once you are close and off to the side it won't be anywhere near as bright particually when dipped.

Incidently train headlights on the the mainline locos in NZ are 200 watt bulbs.

[warewolf]

Isn't candle power an older style measurement?

Yes, but that's not the point.

[avgas]

yeah im a little bit worried about this, wonder if i should get a wof and take the rego off hold :S

My thoughts as well. But mine sounded more like "May be you should unbolt the plate, and run next time. Get busted for something decent".
I don't listen to that voice often......which is probably why I haven't been for a ride for a month. However if he (and they) win, I will be getting something that out runs the plod.

These are sad times for motorists in New Zealand. Will be like Diabetics in a candy store.

[avgas]

Isn't candle power an older style measurement?

Old is being nice. Its archaic. Like a thimble of sugar or eye-of-newt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candela

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt

Plenty of new stuff out there for those of you whom were born post 17th century.