Rear brake use?

[imdying]

Mid corner you're thinking about how early you can get back on the gas, not fucking about with the rear brake.

[sugilite:Me]

So is there any advantage for an "average" rider in using the rear brake MID CORNER other than to tighten the line after too fast a corner entry or in low speed turning situations such as turning into a driveway or going round a roundabout?

Yes, can stabilize, depends though on how hard you are braking and individual scenarios.

I have noticed that some people say they drag their rear brake through a corner as well as applying throttle, seems a bit counter intuitive (to me anyway).

Can have the effect of "stretching" the bike out and stabilizing things, I personally hardly ever do it.

Also, isn't engine braking on a big 4 stroke sports bike enough to lock the back wheel at high revs if no slipper clutch is fitted?

Yes, if you just bang it down the box roughly

[SMOKEU]

So if I find myself entering a corner too fast and I can't straighten up and brake, should I just keep holding the throttle open slightly AND lightly hold the rear brake as opposed to just backing off the throttle completely and letting the engine brake slow the back wheel with no back brake?

[onearmedbandit]

Been riding for over 20yrs now on the road, and while I understand why top flight racers can use the rear brake to settle the bike etc I've never had cause to use it in most riding situations, with the exception of tightening a line mid-corner, down hill cornering and slow speed turns. Don't concern yourself with it Chris. As far as locking the rear under engine braking, mate I've slammed my thou down the box entering the hairpin at Ruapuna and had the back wheel chattering but never lock up.

[caspernz]

So if I find myself entering a corner too fast and I can't straighten up and brake, should I just keep holding the throttle open slightly AND lightly hold the rear brake as opposed to just backing off the throttle completely and letting the engine brake slow the back wheel with no back brake?

This might be a time where looking where you want to go, opening throttle a little more and riding it out is the answer.... Braking takes away stability whereas gently cranking throttle will add stability. Oh, and if you make it thru the turn you'll see the wisdom in the old racers' saying: Slow in, fast out.

[SMOKEU]

This might be a time where looking where you want to go, opening throttle a little more and riding it out is the answer.... Braking takes away stability whereas gently cranking throttle will add stability. Oh, and if you make it thru the turn you'll see the wisdom in the old racers' saying: Slow in, fast out.

So if I'm running wide then should I just try and lean more? I always try to err on the side of caution and take corners slower than what I know I can take it.

[caspernz]

Running wide can be countered by hanging off the inside of the bike a bit, even just moving one arsecheek off the seat helps. Drop your inside shoulder, weight the inside footpeg, look where you wanna go and crank a bit of throttle. Leaning over a bit more doesn't hurt. Some professional rider training can fine tune all these individual bike control skills.

[onearmedbandit]

So if I'm running wide then should I just try and lean more? I always try to err on the side of caution and take corners slower than what I know I can take it.

Yup. Lean that bitch more, if you find yourself looking at the edge of the road that's where you'll go, make yourself look where you want to go, not where you think you're going to head up going (ie the ditch).

On a ride to Nelson a couple years back I found myself too fast for a left hand bend. On the current trajectory I was on I was going to cross the centreline. I turned my head sharp into the corner (I had looked forward when I realised what was happening) and dropped that bitch in, toe touched down quickly followed by peg then the peg started folding in. I made it through the corner with no more fuss, and stayed within my lane. Now I ride reasonably quickly on the road (not top speed stuff, just linking corners together) but I never ride hard enough to scrape my pegs regularly (too many risks on the road to do that) but I know that if I ever get myself into trouble my bike can go over a lot further to dig myself out of the shit. Oh and I never touched the rear brake during that incident, I was too busy concentrating on dropping the bike into the corner harder.

[caspernz]

Yep, look where you want to go! All the courses for driver or rider training I've ever been on have drummed this in. The mind achieves what you focus it on, focus on where you don't wanna end up and oooppss, there you'll end up. Have had one or two experiences similar to onearmedbandit, without hospital food intervention, and have learned from these. I ride just as fast nowadays, but experience combined with correct technique (training) has enlarged my comfort zone. Oh yes, my footpegs are unmarked from the bottom, by choice.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So if I'm running wide then should I just try and lean more? I always try to err on the side of caution and take corners slower than what I know I can take it.

Maybe part of the 'running wide' thing is taking the wrong line into the corner in the first place?

[caspernz]

Maybe part of the 'running wide' thing is taking the wrong line into the corner in the first place?

Yes, perhaps we were solving the symptom not the cause? Take a Prorider course and report back....

[bluninja]

Running wide can be countered by hanging off the inside of the bike a bit, even just moving one arsecheek off the seat helps. Drop your inside shoulder, weight the inside footpeg, look where you wanna go and crank a bit of throttle. Leaning over a bit more doesn't hurt. Some professional rider training can fine tune all these individual bike control skills.

Personally I would weight the outside footpeg. If your weight is on your inside peg and it touches it's not good. With the weight on your outside peg and the inside just resting you can put your knee down, ankle and calf sliders down, and finally let the peg (if it's not fixed) lift.....all the time applying throttle. I think that's something that Keith Code advocates.....weighting the ourside peg, not going in too fast and putting all your lower body parts on the tarmac.

I was taught a wierd technique on an advanced course of momentarily rolling off the throttle a little and then reapplying to the original position just to make the bike fall into the corner a bit more. The theory being that the front tyre is heavily stressed and more countersteer to get the bike over could make it lose traction. Rolling off and on the throttle causes a small loss of speed and the bike falls inwards without more stress on the tyre. I guess it's similar to using a little rear brake, it's just I'm not gifted enough to cope with steering, throttle and brakes when I'm going OMG-OMG-too-fastI-won't-make-it

[sugilite:Me]

I'm going OMG-OMG-too-fastI-won't-make-it

I'm Not trying to judge you here, but in my opinion that above line is why a lot of people crash, they literally talk themselves out of options and into trouble. Creating ones own reality n all that.
Not running in to hot is if course best practice, but practicing survival skills in a safe area is great back up insurance.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not riding in an OMG OMG state on the road in the first place is a good place to start as well.

OMG...I'm starting to sound like Katman...

[scumdog]

Don't concern yourself with it Chris. As far as locking the rear under engine braking, mate I've slammed my thou down the box entering the hairpin at Ruapuna and had the back wheel chattering but never lock up.

On the other hand I was heading to Nelson and coming down the Hope saddle in the T-Sport in the wet, I changed down a bit ham-fistedly (sort of par for the course for me!) heading into a hair-pin.

When I let the clutch out it caused me to have a big slide a couple of times as the rear locked up, wasn't going fast but with the wet road and the weight coming off the back wheeel it was enough....