MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

**bogan** · 29th March 2012, 07:39

Originally Posted by Katman

Yeah, heaven forbid that motorcyclists should be given irrefutable proof that a huge chunk of their woes stem from their own failings.

I mean, that wouldn't fit very well with the "fucking cager" theory, would it?

They already have been, I don't see why you have such a simplistic view if the situation. Telling/showing bikers we cause a very significant number of our own accidents isn't actually going to fix anything.

Maybe you're like motonz? making a heap of talk and trying to draw focus, but in reality, up to fuck all.

**Katman** · 29th March 2012, 07:41

Originally Posted by bogan

Maybe you're like motonz? making a heap of talk and trying to draw focus, but in reality, up to fuck all.

Yeah, cos MAG NZ really knocked them for six.

**bogan** · 29th March 2012, 07:47

Originally Posted by Katman

Yeah, cos MAG NZ really knocked them for six.

That's what I mean, we didn't distort the stats, we told bikers they needed to improve:

The fault distribution for 2004-2008 showed motorcyclists at fault for 53% of motorcycle accidents,
and other motorists at fault for 39%, with 7% partial fault. Taking into account that motorcycles are
three times more likely to be in an accident, we see that motorcyclists have at fault crashes a lot
more than the average motorist, and get hit significantly more than average as well, so there is
definite room for improvement from both sides.

and did it work? Doesn't sound like it.

Or maybe we need to ignore the rest of the accident causes as you do, stop trying to fix half the problem, so we can continue an ineffectual approach with the other half? That is what you are trying to do in this thread right?

**Katman** · 29th March 2012, 08:06

Originally Posted by bogan

Or maybe we need to ignore the rest of the accident causes as you do, stop trying to fix half the problem, so we can continue an ineffectual approach with the other half? That is what you are trying to do in this thread right?

I'm not ignoring anything.

But I am focusing on the factor that we have the greatest influence over. Ourselves.

**avgas** · 29th March 2012, 08:28

Originally Posted by Katman

I'm not ignoring anything.

But I am focusing on the factor that we have the greatest influence over. Ourselves.

Yeah but unfortunately we can't pay ourselves $20 year instead. You could try putting case to McSAC. But I suspect is all you will get is a free hi-viz and a cookie.

**bogan** · 29th March 2012, 13:23

Originally Posted by avgas

Yeah but unfortunately we can't pay ourselves $20 year instead. You could try putting case to McSAC. But I suspect is all you will get is a free hi-viz and a cookie.

A cookie you say? Better value than we've had so far!

I think some submission are in order come april, either addressing what is in the chairmans update, or the lack of it.

Originally Posted by Katman

I'm not ignoring anything.

But I am focusing on the factor that we have the greatest influence over. Ourselves.

The thing about people, is they group themselves for the good bits, but it is others who are responsible for the bad parts, how many bikers do you think consider their own riding unsafe? cos lets face it, they're the only ones you are talking to. I don't think we have much greater influence over bikers than we do the rest of the road users, simply more exposure.

**avgas** · 29th March 2012, 13:43

Originally Posted by bogan

A cookie you say? Better value than we've had so far!

They always give cookies at places that take your blood.

**Katman** · 29th March 2012, 14:30

Originally Posted by bogan

The thing about people, is they group themselves for the good bits, but it is others who are responsible for the bad parts, how many bikers do you think consider their own riding unsafe?

I sure there's plenty of motorcyclists who deep down know that a lot of their riding is unsafe.

There's an even greater number of motorcyclists who deep down know that their riding has considerable room for improvement.

It's far easier though to continue blaming everyone/everything else.

**NONONO** · 29th March 2012, 16:24

The creed of katman

**caseye** · 29th March 2012, 16:50

LOL, like that I do, K when they going to be dished out?
I've a few idiots they could go to, pity is those idiots are riding off into the sunset by the time they've done the damage, most of the time anyway.

**NONONO** · 29th March 2012, 17:16

Could get them minted or printed out, sort of like those playing cards in Apocalypse Now eh?
Mr K always misses the point.
Blame and fault rather than cause.
If the investigation of "cause" is clouded by a rush to "fault", as is the case here, then research on "Rider at Fault" accident rates is useless.
If the investigations are inconsistent, that is they are better resourced in some areas than others, this again devalues the research.
If the information (derived from the investigation) is put into the big research machine (BRM) in an inconsistent way then the research is further devalued.
And if the results spewed out by the big research machine (BRM) are open to political bias or the perceived need to raise money (such as maybe, erm, oh, off the top of my head, ACC levies on motorcycle registrations) well, who knows what they may come up with?
And if some people swallow it whole, hook line and Nick Smith, then God bless them.
Kats always smell fishy to me anyway.