MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[StoneY]

Is this a motorcycle riders website or a natonal party cotton wool protectioniast propoganda experiment?

[chanceyy]

What the FUCK did your post have o do with riding motorcycles dude??????

comparsions Stoney .. even your not that dense. Can apply learnings from most situations to motorbikes if your not so one eyed, (or hot under the collar)

[chanceyy]

Is this a motorcycle riders website or a natonal party cotton wool protectioniast propoganda experiment?

Do you need to read the site rules (that you agreed too on registering) if you have complaint re me or my modding take it to someone who cares .. I actually abide by the rules that I agreed to on registering

(MT or Spank is who you need to send your complaints too - but they won't care)

[StoneY]

comparsions Stoney .. even your not that dense. Can apply learnings from most situations to motorbikes if your not so one eyed, (or hot under the collar)

Collar?
You mean Pissed? Stoned? Say it stop eluding to shit.....
This website lost its balls, lost ist way, lots its direction


I blame my temper it gets the best of me

[StoneY]

Do you need to read the site rules (that you agreed too on registering) if you have complaint re me or my modding take it to someone who cares .. I actually abide by the rules that I agreed to on registering

(MT or Spank is who you need to send your complaints too - but they won't care)

OMG there are RULES? How can this be abiker website whenther are RULES!

Fuckin kindergarten

[chanceyy]

Collar?
You mean Pissed? Stoned? Say it stop eluding to shit.....
This website lost its balls, lost ist way, lots its direction

would you like me to assist in your leaving ??

.. I can do that

after all since its lost its direction, way and of course balls

you will not want to stay as a KB member then

[chanceyy]

OMG there are RULES? How can this be abiker website whenther are RULES!

Fuckin kindergarten

yup bit like the rest of the nanny state but there ya go .. now you big tough 1% have you graduadated from the sandpit yet ??

[GrayWolf]

What the FUCK did your post have to do with riding motorcycles dude??????

Stoney, how long is it going to take for you to THINK before you 'speak'?? Even in this medium, you 'gob off' without thinking,,, no wonder you were so popular in official meetings... Blaming your temper is no excuse, if you react this way on the road, I am amazed you are still above ground... if you dont react that way when riding? apply the same thinking when responding to what others have to say....

[StoneY]

yup bit like the rest of the nanny state but there ya go .. now you big tough 1% have you graduadated from the sandpit yet ??

Nope and far from 1% old friend...more like 15% (I pay my taxes)

Me and Katman - MMA cage rules - sell tickets for Starship - hold it in Bulls (midway point)
Bring it on!

[StoneY]

would you like me to assist in your leaving ??

.. I can do that

after all since its lost its direction, way and of course balls

you will not want to stay as a KB member then

Tell ya what Chanceyy

Show me the door.
This place is losing it's validy and its appeal - I used to tell MOTO they needed to have a presence here beacuse it has the most motorcyclists in NZ reading its pages.
But I guess that wasted effort was just as useless as the moderation of this website.

Sayonara

[oneofsix]

Kat I'll try this from another angle..

And that will be where he stopped reading... Having seen his bullshit over the last and the number of people that have tried to tell him believe me his post about fingers in the ears was referring to himself.

Other than that your post was good and gives a good rough outline as to what Moto should be about, the same sort of idea used in aviation and medicine referred to earlier. The only problem I see is that as a country, and perhaps it is the time we live in, we have a blame and punish attitude especially if it involves $$.

Yes motorcyclist sometimes ride like fukwits and drivers drive like fukwits. You can improve that but as the popular image of a motorcyclist is someone craving through the traffic that isn't easy, just view most TV programmes when they include bikes and see how they are shown, or comment to a workmate the drives a cage that you as a bike rider prefer to avoid the traffic where the standard response will be alone the lines of "but traffic doesn't delay a bike" like they expect you to split lanes at 100k in 30k traffic

However if we work on the dangerous road furniture, road surfaces etc, we give the rider a better survival chance. How many times has a minor crash not been avoided or occurred due to lack of trust in the road surface? Or injuries made worse for the sake of a skirt on a barrier?

This isn't an all or nothing. There are and always will be rider improvement programmes, even if it is just you telling your mate a better way. But Moto is meant to be about the other factors, and fatting 3M's coffers with hi-viz aint it, FFS the SMDSYs can't even see trucks or other cars so shove our hi-viz where the sun don't shine, police the minor couldn't give a fuk infractions like indication, turning into the correct lane etc and I reckon suddenly all SMDSYs, be it bike, car, truck or train will drop because they will now be thinking drive and not coffee, date, or whatever. Note I left out speed because the person doing 110k on a near empty highway is probably concentrating more on their driving than the person tooting along, just look at the posts on here where it is the tootler that pulled the sudden lane change or u-turn or whatever caused the excitment, not the speeder.

[Katman]

The industry has started to move away from just 'simple blame' towards cause,,,

Considering the fact that in a large percentage of motorcycle accidents the motorcyclist is the 'cause', don't you think it would be sensible to address that issue?

[MSTRS:Me]

No, I imply that if there was no accident there wouldn't have to be any 'fault' or 'cause'.

There will always be 'accidents'. And there will always be a cause. But not usually fault.
Crashes, on the other hand, will always be as a result of fault. Which in this case equals cause.

... there used to be a 'fuck up and be punished' attitude, rather than the one they now have...

In motoring terms there still is.
Narrow it down to bikes-only...and all of us are punished for anyone's fuck-ups. I resent that.
Katman is right...in that if we crashed less, our public profile would rise and our costs would go down.
He is also right in saying that only the rider can control what they do when riding, and only the rider can mitigate what others do that endanger him/her.
Road craft won't always avoid accidents, but it will reduce crashes. Isn't that what we all want?

[GrayWolf]

Quote originally Posted by Oneofsix : And that will be where he stopped reading... Having seen his bullshit over the last and the number of people that have tried to tell him believe me his post about fingers in the ears was referring to himself.

Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf : The industry has started to move away from just 'simple blame' towards cause,

,

Considering the fact that in a large percentage of motorcycle accidents the motorcyclist is the 'cause', don't you think it would be sensible to address that issue? I stick my fingers in my ears, go ting a ling a loo

there fixed it for ya!!!

[GrayWolf]

There will always be 'accidents'. And there will always be a cause. But not usually fault.
Crashes, on the other hand, will always be as a result of fault. Which in this case equals cause.



In motoring terms there still is.
Narrow it down to bikes-only...and all of us are punished for anyone's fuck-ups. I resent that.
Katman is right...in that if we crashed less, our public profile would rise and our costs would go down.
He is also right in saying that only the rider can control what they do when riding, and only the rider can mitigate what others do that endanger him/her.
Road craft won't always avoid accidents, but it will reduce crashes. Isn't that what we all want?

I completely agree MSTRS, if you read my posts on accidents and 'road use' I think you'll see I try to advocate roadcraft... the point being made is not the that punishment is meted out for an offence, but rather the cause needs to be understood. Most legislation is formed by either a knee jerk reaction (dangerous dogs act is a classic) by Govt, or a Polititian out to make their name ( like S bradford). I know there has been research done to show that headlights are not the panacea they were supposed to be, AND, that headlights DO affect distance judgement, yet Govts still put laws in place... hi Vis will be the same panacea, we all know this. In fact serious accident causes are NOT punished effectively, Look at Denmark/Swededn etc for DD offences. Death caused by reckless, dangerous or substance use driving? Should be a mandatory manslaughter charge.
But, along side that IS the need to understand the mechanics and cause of any incident... Drunk Driving was seen as Socialy acceptable for years here, so often hear tales of 'farmer Joe' who drives/drove home smashed out of his skull... Binge drinking is a culture for our young.... So as well as a penalty for the miscreant? We also need to (and are starting to) target attitude in general.... That is what 'cause investigation' would bring about, the behaviours and attitudes that need shifting. A good example again is from work, the whole place (mainly open air) is non smoking, there is a smoking area set aside though. However smokers, as smokers do, light up on platforms and object quite strongly when told that they are in a non smoking area... it's outside, I need a ciggy, i'll miss my service if i go over there, it's too crowded to push a way through. So they justify their actions, BUT all those people around them? Say nothing. Therfore condoning the 'offence'. If you go to a few European countries I KNOW that with certainty the crowd around them would most vocally tell them to 'put it out'....