MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[Katman]

Because, again, you imply fault rather than cause. You just don't get it do you? What part of this is difficult?

No, I imply that if there was no accident there wouldn't have to be any 'fault' or 'cause'.

[Ocean1]

No, I imply that if there was no accident there wouldn't have to be any 'fault' or 'cause'.

Dude, do me a favour, eh?

Spend an hour researching accident theory. Try terms like investigation methodology, risk analysis, root cause analysis.

Two industries with the best, (and most improved) record in risk management are aviation and medical. See if you can discover why, eh? Try “Swiss cheese model.”



Hint: rider behaviour is not a cause of accidents. It’s a latent condition.

[Katman]

Dude, do me a favour, eh?

Spend an hour researching accident theory. Try terms like investigation methodology, risk analysis, root cause analysis.

Two industries with the best, (and most improved) record in risk management are aviation and medical. See if you can discover why, eh? Try “Swiss cheese model.”



Hint: rider behaviour is not a cause of accidents. It’s a latent condition.

I know all about the 'Swiss cheese model'.

You seem to miss the fact that the motorcyclist is one of those slices of Swiss cheese.

If they do something different the whole scenario changes.

[Katman]

And furthermore, the easiest slice of Swiss cheese to move in order for the holes not to line up is the one that represents yourself.

[Ocean1]

I know all about the 'Swiss cheese model'.

You seem to miss the fact that the motorcyclist is one of those slices of Swiss cheese.

If they do something different the whole scenario changes.

On the contrary. You seem to miss the fact that there are always others.

Change any of them and there's no accident.

Aviation and healthcare didn't make the improvements they did by blaming doctors, nurses and pilots, quite the opposite.

[Katman]

On the contrary. You seem to miss the fact that there are always others.

Change any of them and there's no accident.

Aviation and healthcare didn't make the improvements they did by blaming doctors, nurses and pilots, quite the opposite.

Seriously man, you're the one missing the point.

A single step to the side by the slice of cheese represented by the motorcyclist changes the outcome.

Instead you hope to achieve something by trying to force the other slices of cheese to move.

[Ocean1]

Seriously man, you're the one missing the point.

When I see you addressing some of the multitude of other contributing factors in accidents with something approaching closely reasoned argument I'll pay some attention.

Until then I'll not bother reading what has proven to be a serial ill-focused and negative diatribe.

[Katman]

When I see you addressing some of the multitude of other contributing factors in accidents with something approaching closely reasoned argument I'll pay some attention.

Until then I'll not bother reading what has proven to be a serial ill-focused and negative diatribe.

Yeah, sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LAH, LAH, LAH...." makes loads of sense.

[bogan]

When I see you addressing some of the multitude of other contributing factors in accidents with something approaching closely reasoned argument I'll pay some attention.

Until then I'll not bother reading what has proven to be a serial ill-focused and negative diatribe.

+1, I subscribed to this thread a few days ago when it looked like things were starting to move with regard to motonz, is there still interest for that? or has it been naysayed away?

[StoneY]

YOU MODS are fuckin ruining Kiwibiker
GROW SOME FOR FUCK SAKE

Its MEANT to be a BIKER site, not some kindergarten experiment on how to be nice to thy neighbour

[chanceyy]

YOU MODS are fuckin ruining Kiwibiker
GROW SOME FOR FUCK SAKE

Its MEANT to be a BIKER site

then stop abusing each other and use ya brains and do a reasonable arguement, rather than posturing all over the place .. geeezzzzz

[StoneY]

then stop abusing each other and use ya brains and do a reasonable arguement, rather than posturing all over the place .. geeezzzzz

posturing is a valid professional position matey

[GrayWolf]

Yeah, heaven forbid that motorcyclists should be given irrefutable proof that a huge chunk of their woes stem from their own failings.

I mean, that wouldn't fit very well with the "fucking cager" theory, would it?

Kat I'll try this from another angle.. I work in what is called a 'safety critical' environment, where people can and have been killed at work, the figures for the year leading up to march last year are as follows:
In the last 12 months there have been:
1450
reported incidents, resulting in
9 deaths
39 injuries
previous times a minimum of a death a month was the norm purely among staff, the current figure includes deaths of public involved in incidents.

The industry has started to move away from just 'simple blame' towards cause,,, Yes operators have direct responsibility in an incident and are stood down pending investigation and outcome of it. They are disciplined as it is seen 'fit' with regulations as a guideline for the severity of the incident. Also past behavior is taken into account. Education and if needed retraining is now the direction the 'bosses' are heading, bearing in mind a 'severe incident' (which can be one with no actual, but a possible major incident as a result of said 'event') can result in immediate dismissal or permanent removal from position held. There is a protocol and format of investigation.. this reviews from the day before/nights sleep/ workload for the day, any unusual occurrences that may have been a contributing factor of distraction. It doesnt 'absolve' the operator, but gives an insight as to the incidents mechanics.
You may have very valid points to make, but for my industry there used to be a 'fuck up and be punished' attitude, rather than the one they now have,,,, also there has been a drastic REDUCTION in the levels of death among staff over the same period of this change of direction. Punishment/Discipline is still 'meted out' when required, but there is a greater 'database' of understanding the mechanism of incidents now. Having this understanding of contributory factors HAS helped educate staff and directly alter the levels of injury/deaths..... Maybe trying to assimilate that attitude into your approach to 'safety' may just get you far more listeners than the current approach???

[chanceyy]

posturing is a valid professional position matey

only in yours and Katmans heads .. but finally we have someone doing a great reply see below

Kat I'll try this from another angle.. I work in what is called a 'safety critical' environment, where people can and have been killed at work, the figures for the year leading up to march last year are as follows:
In the last 12 months there have been:
1450
reported incidents, resulting in
9 deaths
39 injuries

The industry has started to move away from just 'simple blame' towards cause,,, Yes operators have direct responsibility in an incident and are stood down pending investigation and outcome of it. They are disciplined as it is seen 'fit' with regulations as a guideline for the severity of the incident. Also past behavior is taken into account. Education and if needed retraining is now the direction the 'bosses' are heading, bearing in mind a 'severe incident' (which can be one with no actual, but a possible major incident as a result of said 'event') can result in immediate dismissal or permanent removal from position held. There is a protocol and format of investigation.. this reviews from the day before/nights sleep/ workload for the day, any unusual occurrences that may have been a contributing factor of distraction.
You may have very valid points to make, but for my industry there used to be a 'fuck up and be punished' attitude, rather than the one they now have,,,, also there has been a drastic REDUCTION in the levels of death among staff over the same period of this change of direction. Punishment/Discipline is still 'meted out' when required, but there is a greater 'database' of understanding the mechanism of incidents now. Having this understanding of contributory factors HAS helped educate staff and directly alter the levels of injury/deaths..... Maybe trying to assimilate that attitude into your approach to 'safety' may just get you far more listeners than the current approach???

nice !!!!!

[StoneY]

Kat I'll try this from another angle.. I work in what is called a 'safety critical' environment, where people can and have been killed at work, the figures for the year leading up to march last year are as follows:
In the last 12 months there have been:
1450
reported incidents, resulting in
9 deaths
39 injuries

The industry has started to move away from just 'simple blame' towards cause,,....blah blah blah...I wann ride my bike blah blah... blah blah o your approach to 'safety' may just get you far more listeners than the current approach???

What the FUCK did your post have to do with riding motorcycles dude??????