Call for Ideas to Revive Road Racing in NZ

[Motu]

Is it the bikes? correct me if Im wrong but arent they the self same bikes we see racing at club and national level?
.

No,they aren't the same bikes - there is a huge classic and post classic field at those meetings.That's what I go to watch,when the plastic bikes come out I go for a wander in the pits and check out the bike park.

Wanganui,Paeroa and the Classic Festival - the biggest bike meetings of the year,biggest spectator turnout.....any coincidence it's the meetings with classic and naked bikes.How can you get those same people coming to watch your boring club races?

[Ixion]

OK, you aren't into the faired bikes, but I think the average spectator likes to see the biggest bad assed bikes around, you know the ones that look they are going light speed even when they are parked outside the local cafe, which like it or not, means a Gixxer, CBR, R1, ZX etc. I reckon they also want 'em to sound like the hounds of hell with their balls caught in a gin trap too, so let 'em at least bolt on a can of their choice, if not a full system.

Well, you have those racing at present. No-one (I think) is usggesting doing away with existing classes. You staill ahve the MotoGP and F1 F2 etc. But , the original post indicates that they are not enough. So the suggestion was a new class , to try to generate fresh interest. The thoughts about venue and facilities obviously apply to all classes.

It seems to me that such a class must be reasonably cheap one to enter. Not down at bucket level, but one where someone could spend less than $10000 and have a reasonable competative bike for a season. That tends to rule out the R1 level stuff. I don't know what it would cost to put a club level competative 1000cc racer in the field for a seson but I'm guessing a lot more than a new comer to racing is going to be willing and able to pay.

Certainly, such a class may be just a stepping stone to the "serious" stuff. But it would get new competators out there. And help draw the crowds.

As to the exhausts, I must admit I am myself in two minds about that - throwing on a mega was always the first (cheap and simple) step to tuning- and they do sound good. My problem was to think of a way that would ensure that engines remained reasonably stock , that could be quickly and easily checked by scrutineers, without major dismantling. Only way I could think of was to require that fuel delivery be stock standard, because that is easy to check, and if you cant change it, changes to compression, cams etc make little point. Unfortunately that also stops changes to exhaust.

BTW I have resiled from my thought that frame and suspension should be stock. I would actually suggest that frame and suspension mods be allowed ad lib , PROVIDED that the changed components are themselves production bikes ones, (from the same manufacturer, maybe ?? ) . That allows for people putting motard engines in classic race frames, and grafting on better forks and brakes etc. These sort of mods can be done reasonably cheaply, do make a "race" bike as opposed to a "proddy racer", and are easy to scrutineer.

...From a sponsors point of veiw, I need people to be able to SEE my rider, and their bike when they are on the other side of the track. I need somewhere to put my logos.
..

Valid point. Anyone got any ideas? Does seem a bit absurd though if the justification for full fairings is just to have somewhere to slap logos. Mind you, without a fairing the rider himself is much more visable. Maybe the logos could go on the leathers?.

[TwoSeven]

I know this might sound like a daft question. But exactly what do motorcycle clubs actually offer people?

[vtec]

Ixion, with regard to your new class idea, affordable racing a stepping stone to bigger and better things. I think you pretty much described Streetstock racing. It's well less than $10,000 to get started, and I think I'm getting pretty close to 200k/hr on my cbr250 so it's still very exciting. I run my bike with stock everything, but there are some things you are allowed to change. I have realised that it's way more exciting for the spectators if they have spoken to the rider's before they watch them race. It helps to humanise it, and put a lot more emotion into it for the spectator. But I personally don't have much that I could do to lure more spectator's apart from asking my mates and friends and acquaintances to come along and check it out. Food stall's is definitely a good idea. Also advertising the events to the spectators. And finally encouraging people to get down into the pits and talk to the people that are out there doing what they wish themselves were doing... racing.

Nice discussion guys. Some good ideas, just need to be acted on, to see if they will work... I'm not cleaning any toilets though.

[TonyB]

I really don't want to turn this into an argument about naked vs faired bikes. Each to their own I say. But I really don't think people flock to street races just because there are naked bikes there. Think about the V8 touring cars- can you see the engine? Nope. Can you even see the driver? Nope. So why do the spectators flock to the races? It must be because the series captured their imagination- big noisy V8's slipping and sliding around the track. Race cars based on something you see everyday, and that many people own. That MUST have something to do with it. And lets face it, every year 10s of 1000s of people flock to the Isle of Mann to catch breif glimpses of fully faired bikes howling around at insane speeds.

I think people head to street races simply because its a street race. Its loud as hell, spectators are close to the action. The speed is easier to appreciate because the bikes are flashing past buildings. It doesn't even seem to matter that the buildings block the view of most of the track. It must be the whole 'shock and awe' thing, watching a bike howl down a built up street 200 plus k's is bloody impressive!

Maybe thats what we need? More street races to capture the publics imagination. The trouble is I guess the good ol' Resource Management Act could be used to effectively squash any new proposed race. And then theres the sheer expense of setting up fencing etc etc

[ajturbo]

I know this might sound like a daft question. But exactly what do motorcycle clubs actually offer people?

[FROSTY:Me]

Ya know tony --funny thing--about 20 years ago a bloke called Yogi martin floated the idea of a purpose built street track--
The idea was to actually desighn a road first and foremost as a road track
then sell it as an industrial area or perhaps a park.
Good ol godzone laughed him off . Funny innit--this place called er um-ohh yea melbourn in australia liked the idea ---course it was a total flop --no way a grand prix would ever be held there aye???

[TonyB]

Dammit Frosty, will I EVER have an original idea? A few months back either on this thread or another one I half jokingly suggested that the way to get people to watch racing would be to sell off the spare land around the race track as an industrial area and stick buildings on it, thereby turning the racetrack into a street race.

Oh well. Good ol Yogi eh!

[trev]

Yet Peroa and whanganui have over 10000 turn up to attend every year.
Ok so whats so special about them??
I

Available right there are :- hotels, (= beer, edible food, clean toilets ), cafes, shade, Mr Whippy, all the facilities a town offers PLUS a whole town getting behind the event.

[Kickaha]

Ya know tony --funny thing--about 20 years ago a bloke called Yogi martin floated the idea of a purpose built street track--
The idea was to actually desighn a road first and foremost as a road track

Never heard of the guy

Wonder if he ever heard of Bathurst

[roogazza]

Someone mentioned it before, Street racing !!!! Gracefield, Porirua, Lyall Bay, Onekawa, Hamilton, Hawksbury, Wanganui !!! How many are left and what happened to them ? Adding some of these Street tracks to the main circuits made for a "real championship" I felt quite sad to see about 4 people contesting our 250 GP class . I can also remember sweeping the street and putting up haybales the night before Gracefield , so i guess I must have wanted it badly enough. G.

[kickingzebra]

Carnival atmosphere? minibike racing for alll the wanabes that are amped up... Bike dealers bringing stock out, and all at street races. That is where the excitement is, because the people are there, which breeds excitement, which breeds people... etc
Why not make it entertainment as well, If motorbikes don't do it by themselves, use bands, gigs family etc?!

[gav]

Sort of lost track of this thread, are we talking crowds at club racing or Nationals? Street racing appeal is the one off, once a year deal. You think you'd pull that crowd if you raced at Wanganui every month? Nah, soon left to the die hard fans, the rest have seen it a couple of times and soon bored with it. I think Ruapuna shapes up OK, sure they've got a hot dog stand with hot chips etc, but also have filled rolls and cakes and stuff, reasonable range actually. Do they open the bar on a club day? Not too sure, but they do have a good area with picnic table etc. Also some good viewing areas where yopu can see the whole track.
You guys seen the figures for National bikes sales lately? Its boom time if youre a motorcycle dealer, sales figures are way up, I guess if you saw a motorcycle on display at a track, you don't think you could go and check out the dealer yourself? You don't think that some of those slack arse salesman are actually help put on the event as either racer, pitcrew, marshall etc? See the majority of people who work in a bike shop are enthusiasts unlike car salesman who for a lot are only interested in making money.
As far as a racing series go, I thought a 150 series promoted by the National dealers would be the way to go. The only problem witha one make series is you only have the backing of one franchise. The chance of having dealer backed 150 teams painted up in corporate colours would be fantastic? You'd all like to see Andrew Stroud on a 150? Probably get spanked by some 40kg 12 year old, but hey, what a hoot? I'm sure Yamaha could find something suitable even if it meant bringing in some TZR125-150.
How about a minimum weight level for bike and rider combo, and maybe a hp limit, use a mobile dyno, use as part of scrutineering and top 5 in each race to be rechecked?
The thing is if you have too many classes like bringing in the classics etc, the riders will get pissed off as they won't get enough races to make it worthwile to enter.

[slowpoke]

No,they aren't the same bikes - there is a huge classic and post classic field at those meetings.That's what I go to watch,when the plastic bikes come out I go for a wander in the pits and check out the bike park.

Wanganui,Paeroa and the Classic Festival - the biggest bike meetings of the year,biggest spectator turnout.....any coincidence it's the meetings with classic and naked bikes.How can you get those same people coming to watch your boring club races?

They are the biggest bike meetings of the year because the are accessible, once a year events. There is also the novelty and rare opportunity to see bikes made by manufacturers that are no longer with us, so the comparison is not really a fair one. If the Classic Festival was held four or five times a year you would not get the same support: people are only interested in reliving their youth so often.
Here we go again, but what is the problem with having a fairing? Aren't you interested in seeing/hearing an MV Agusta or Honda 6 GP bike running or racing in anger? These are the star attractions at classic events the world over.
As for bikes being plastic...I guess back in "ye olde tymes" people riding around on steel/cast iron bikes said the same about that there new fangled "aloominumm", and fancy having a (shock horror) vinyl seat, gimme good ol' leather that stays wet for a day and half after the sightest shower. Yep, nothing wrong with bakelite electrical components either...what's that? Cracking and oil impregnation? Oh yeah, apart from that. And I don't want any funny business with magnesium, titanium or carbon fibre (shudder!) parts on MY bike, no sirree, I like that Mack truck feeling between my legs. Thermoplastic sheathed wiring is for pussies too: nothing comes close to sitting on the side of the road on a nice sunny day, waving to all your buddies as they ride past while you hunt for an earth fault on your fabric covered, asbestos insulated, fat as your arm wiring loom. Yeeeeah, now THAT's motorcycling...
Lets face it at the 2046 Wanganui Boxing Day races we'll all be oooohing and aaahing over some immaculately restored Ducati 996R doing demo laps exactly the same way people wax lyrical about Manx Nortons nowadays. You may want to live in the then and there but most of us want to live in the here and now.
Give the throttle jockey's their choice of latest, biggest, lightest and fastest bikes and let'em get on with the show. If it happens to have a fairing on it then so be it.

[Ixion]

,,,Here we go again, but what is the problem with having a fairing?
...

Nothing whatsoever. But remember, the original question was "revive road racing".

Now, there are many races at present with faired bikes. And no-one is suggesting dropping any of them.And , presumably, those who are wanting to see faired bikes racing go along to those meetings.

But,our task is to ask what will attract the people who do NOT go at present. And we may presume that if they do not go at present, then more of the same will not attract them either.Otherwise, they would go now.

So, we must find some sort of racing that is different to what there is at present. And, preferably, is different in a way that we may have some reason to suppose is attractive. Attractive NOT to the people who are presently engaged in racing. But to the people that are NOT attending at present.

Much of this argument seems to be circular - the present racers and supporters saying "But I like xx". Yes, indeed. And good on you for liking it. But we are asking, what could be introduced that would be liked by the people who are NOT enthusiatic about xx. We know that xx does not work for them , because they are not there. Asking the people are ARE already there what THEY like does not assist us. And telling those that are uninterested in the present racing that they should like it because you like it will not work. Perhaps those uninterested in the present meetings are perverse. Perhaps they are olde tyme luddites. But, perverse or luddite as they may be, they are the people you must attract. Scolding them for being so perverse as not to like what you like will not get them to attend.

And what we come up with to attract those who do not attend at present must also be practical, and affordable, for the competitors. And the organisers. And the scrutineers.

Naked bikes do seem to have a support base. And have the advantage of cheapness , and availability.And are easy to organise and scrutineer.

So far no-one has come up with any other alternative. Except, more of the same that there is at present. Which, as we have seen, will not attract the people who are not attracted by it at present.

(I would say "motards" , but I consider these as part of the "naked bike" category)

Of course, there will still be the races for faired bikes. The suggestion was not to replace faired with naked, but to add naked to the repetoire.

You may want to live in the then and there but most of us want to live in the here and now.
Give the throttle jockey's their choice of latest, biggest, lightest and fastest bikes and let'em get on with the show. If it happens to have a fairing on it then so be it.

Fair enough. But then you must not complain that people do not come to the meetings. Because, whilst "most of us" want the "latest, biggest, lightest and fastest bikes" complete with fairings; it is manifestly apparent that "most of THEM" - the folk who are NOT there do not. And the THEM are far more numerous than the "us" - or this thread would not exist. THEY are voting with their feet, walking away.To get THEM to walk back, you must supply what THEY like , not (necessarily) what the "us" like.