Call for Ideas to Revive Road Racing in NZ

[Racey Rider]

Ok, so 150's are slow. Would the fact that you know who's competing in 150's draw you to watch them? If you had someone whose side you were on maybe? If the top 150 riders (& 250's, Burglars , but we need them ) were in a tight battle for points, changing positions regularly in the race, would that make it better to watch them than the 600/1000cc bikes that go faster, but you may not personally know the riders? Do you prefer to see Good racing duels, or fast bikes? (not that the fast guys don't provide this, but just in comparison)

Do we need to create more empathy with the riders goals so you feel included and have someone to back, rather than just show how fast these bikes can go? (in our case,,,, not very fast)
Don't worry,, I don't know what I'm saying yet ether!

PS. Vic series club race events are Free for Spectators.

[svs]

And they normally charge to watch club level racing... when was the last time you paid to go and see a club level soccer/cricket/rugby match?

No we don't. Spectator entry to the VicClub Series is FREE (Can't comment for AMCC or Cantebury etc.). We want to get some exposure for our sponsors.

We've got to try and strike a balance for riders who want to race as cheap as possible, and spectators who want a spectacle.

[k14]

I think Motu has a ggod point.
The biggest meeting in the coubntry is BOTS -as a track the place sucks
Bumps,high kerbing etc --but as a spectacle its fantatstic.food and t shirt stalls everywhere and a stunning atmosphere.

Is it from experience racing there that you say the track sucks? Cause as far as I'm concerned they are some of the best tracks to race on in NZ. Nothing can compare to them. Obviously "best" is a fairly subjective word but I'm sure most other racers agree with me too.

No we don't. Spectator entry to the VicClub Series is FREE (Can't comment for AMCC or Cantebury etc.). We want to get some exposure for our sponsors.

We've got to try and strike a balance for riders who want to race as cheap as possible, and spectators who want a spectacle.

All canterbury events are free too. Only motorcycling events at ruapuna that I know of that cost to enter are Sound of Thunder and the nationals.

[Ixion]

OK. Going back to the original post

..the New Zealand road racing scene looks like it is spiralling down to inevitable oblivion within a few years...I'd like to ask for any/all suggestions from those interested on how to revive the sport in NZ.
..

So, the OP actually asked for suggestions. But it appears that when anyone offers any, people fly into a great huff and indignation that anyone should dare to suggest that the racing scene is not right now perfect in every way.

So , which is you guys? D'you want some input on ideas that might (no guarantees,but whatever you're doing now is not, in the opionion of the OP, working) help stop that spiral ? Or d'y reckon that it's perfect as it is and everyone who doesn't agree should shut up? Your call, but what you *can't* have is the deal where those who don't agree it's fine and dandy should support it anyway.

Now, on the basis that some of y' at least want to stop that spiral, here are some thoughts. They're the thoughts of a potential spectator.Not a racer The person you NEED to lure along if you're going to have decent spectator numbers.

Maybe you don't reckon you need spectator numbers. Well, could be. But seems to me that getting the crowds there to watch is key to the whole thing.

Firstly, cos spectators will pay some entrance fee - maybe not a high one, but something. That's income.

Secondly , spectators today maybe competitors next season.

Thirdly, cos being able to point to thousands of spectators is the best way to get sponsors interested. They're not really going to open their cheque books if the only people that see their name are your three mates. Ditto for TV and press coverage. Media assume that lots of spectators means audience. Your three mates don't rate TV time. Sorry.

Fourthly, a big crowd encourages riders to compete. Yeah, your three mates will cheer you on, but come on, it's gotta be a much bigger buzz racing in front of an audience of thousands. Bigger buzz, more interest, more competitors.

So, I reckon the first thing y'need to do is get the crowds in. How? Well guys, heres a revolutionary novel thought. Maybe by making a race meeting something that people other than your three mates find INTERESTING. A race meeting that provides a days good ENTERTAINMENT ; an ENJOYABLE outing.

Now, I don't know you. I don't know your three mates. I don't know Shaun - or Ray - or Jack - or Uncle Tom Cobbleigh. So the fact that you - or they- are racing isn't really going to make me put it in my diary as a "Must not miss". But I have been a biker for 40 years. Bikes and biking in all their aspects interest me - indeed fascinate me. So it doesn't really take all that much to get me along. And lots like me. But - you're not even providing that "not much".

Folk here keep asking "Well what do you expect ?". Seems to me that the answer to that, from me and all the thousands of people who AREN'T there is pretty clear. "Not much - and that not fun" . That's why they are not there!

So - the question you need to ask is "Well what do you *want*?" . What will make you put it in the diary as "Must not miss".

I can only answer that for myself. But, I'm probably as typical as any of the person you SHOULD be attracting and aren't. And some of the things I want may not be possible. That's fine , I don't expect everything. But you do need to hit some at least of them. And maybe some of them y'already are doing. that's fine too, not suggesting any of them are revolutionary. It's the totality, the overall experience that matters.

I want to know the meeting's on! Yeah, sure, YOU know the meetings on. And so do your three mates. I don't . Simple enough , but remember I don't know you or your three mates. So if you don't publicise the thing I won't ever get there. Publicity doesn't have to cost ; but you do have to work on it. I read the bike mags. I look in bike shop windows. I hang out here. I park my bike with other bikes. Lots of possibilities there to tell me the meetings on - for free.

I want company on the ride down (well, I don't m'self, but lots of people do, especially the younger riders). So you need to set up some meet-up points (and publicise them). Just like a KB ride. Then the trip down becomes part of the days outing. And you need someone at the meet-up points to give directions. Yeah, you and your three mates all know where the track is, but don't assume I do.

I want somewhere to park. Somewhere secure. Somewhere safe. Maybe for my bike. Maybe for my car or van. Somewhere better than a muddy potholed paddock. With the local Light Fingered Larry and HIS mates leaning over the fence.

I want somewhere to stow my gear. It's heavy and hot, and I don't want to lug it round all day in the hot sun.

I want somewhere where I can get out of the sun. Or the rain.

And bikers nowadays are getting older. Odds are , if I'm to get a day pass , I need to be able to persuade my wife/partner/SWMBO/current totty to come along to. She wants somewhere where she doesn't fry. Or drown. Somewhere comfortable. Maybe not all day. But somewhere to get a break from that sun.

I want decent toilets. And SHE absolutely demands them. Chicky type toilets. With nice stuff. Yeah I know, your three mates never objected to pissing behind the shed. Go find a woman and ask her for advice.

Like as not, I may bring the kids too. I want something to keep them amused. It's a long day for them. So some kid type amusements. Yes I know- your three mates aren't interested in that. And while we're on it, something to amuse SHE also, cos maybe SHE ain't totally interested in bikes. Yes, I know, geez, it's tough isn't it. Country horse race meetings figured this out years ago. Go do some research. Find a chick - not a biker chick - ask HER what would be fun for her.

I want something to drink. Like, beer. Yes, I know it's a race meeting. I'm not racing. I may not even be driving. I want a beer. SHE wants a glass of wine. In a proper glass, not a polystyrene cup. And something for the kids, too.

And I want something to eat. I don't expect silver service. I do want something more than a small carton of greasy half cold chips for $5. Give me some variety. Stalls and carts is OK, so long as the grub is OK. Personally I'm into grease - but SHE will want salads and healthy stuff like that. And some tables. Plastic ones will do, provided they've got some shade. Look at Paeroa at the BOTS. Go and look again. Take notes this time.

[Continued = stupid 10000 char limit]

[Ixion]

[Part two - cos of that stupid limit]

Now for the techy stuff.

I'm a biker. I go along for the bikes. I know that for your three mates it's fascinating that you've overtaken Shaun. Or Tom. That may attract my interest. Especially if I know a bit about who Tom is. So lets have some decent programs. With information in them. Information for people who don't know who Shaun is. Or Tom. Decent programs. No, I said decent ones. Try again.

But even when I know who Tom is (and it is interesting to see Tom and Shaun duelling ), it's the bikes I mainly want to see. And the riding. I mean riding, not just a plastic blob going round. I want to see the rider. I want to see the mechanicals.

I'm not so interested in whether they reach warp speed down the back straight or not. Yes, I know that's what you're interested in. But think about it. At meetings like BOTS where is it the spectators all cluster? At the corners, right. Where the bikes slow down. So you can see them.

So, given I don't really care that much about the top speed, here's a thought for a class. Naked bikes. Ooohhh - heresy. Everybody KNOWS race bikes have to have full fairings. Yeah ? Why? Naked bikes , spectators can see the bike. They can see the rider. Sure, it'll knock something off the top speed . So what. I could care less? And naked bikes are harder to ride (at race speeds) . That makes it more interesting for the spectators. And it's cheaper for the competitors. The fairing is always the expensive bit that gets smashed in a bin.

Naked bikes would make entry easier for new competitors. They can take their road bikes and remove the fairings - put 'em away nice an safe. Or race a street fighter. Or one of the naked bikes. Or a motard. I'm assuming it's going to be some sort of production based class. Cos if you're talking works racers then we're in a whole different ball game.

Naked bikes are more interesting for spectators. We get to see the bike itself, not just pretty coloured plastic. Yeah, I know, your three mates judge bikes by how pretty the paint job is. How gay is that, anyway, making how pretty a bike is your criterion.

Size? Well, I'm not too fussed. You could have a couple of classes. I'd suggest 650cc, max of three cylinders. Quite a few possibilities there. ER6, SV650 , motards, Ducatis.And not too expensive to join in.

Excludes the four cylinder race replicas. Make a separate class for them if you want.

If you wanted you could even have a mixed class , twins and triples to 650cc , fours to 400cc (though the latter would probably be a ZXR400 monopoly)

Modifications permitted? Hard one that, cos if you don't allow them (a) it's damn hard to police, and (b) you tend to get the situation you had when the Manx Norton ruled, where the winner was whoever could spend the most blueprinting the motor. But I'd suggest stock carbs (including jetting) or fuel maps and injectors. And stock air box and filters. That's easy to check. And if you can't change jets or mapping, other mods aren't going to help much.Yeah, I know, that means you can't fit trick exhausts. Boo hoo. And main frame stuff (wheels, forks etc) as stock.

How long a race? Well, I don't really like short races. They're no test of man or machine, and you tend to miss the action if you look away. If I want to watch sprints, I'll go to Meremere. I'd say a two hour race minimum , for the main event.

That's going to provide some challenging racing, on naked bikes. And it means that the race isn't settled by someone making a mistake at the beginning. Even a bin may not mean retirement, you can still catch up. The longer the race the longer the drama. 'Tis no accident that all, the famous races , TT, Monza, Le Mans, Daytona, Bathurst are long ones. Three hours would be better. Makes for strategy too. Tyres and fuel either have to last the race out (and cope with rain maybe!), or you have to have a decent pit crew.

And have a series of them.

So, there's some suggestions for you. I reckon a three hour naked 650 race series , with decent facilities would draw the crowds. But it's up to you. No-one's making you change. No-ones making me attend, either.

[Ixion]

[Part three- cos I just thought of this]

Think about a creche. Yes, now you stopped laughing, think about it again. Now go and organise it. Sigh. Go find that woman again - the one who told you what decent toilets should be like. Ask her. She'll explain why you want one.

Also. Get the bike dealers to come down, and bring some bikes to display. So I can look at them. And maybe they might even sell some.

And then think about combining a track demo day with the race. So after the race I can try one of those bikes the dealer is trying to sell me on the track. And make the dealer pay something for this.

On an unrelated rant. Just how gormless are bike salesmen in NZ anyway. at Paeroa, there was an area set up for dealers to display bikes. And they did. Presumably, cos they wanted to sell bikes.

I wandered around looking at them all for over half an hour. Obviously a biker (with helmet and all). Old enough to maybe have some money. Not one sales bod approached me. No-one slipped a business card into my hand. No-one asked my name and contact details to follow up on later. I even looked for a guest book to sign. Nope. So, how many potential sales contacts did y' miss out on there, guys. Not much point taking all those bikes down there if you can't be bothered to do the actual selling bit. Just a thought, like. Y'know, it's sort of what the sales bit in salesman means.

[slowpoke]

"aloof prima donna's of road racing" I'm buggered if I know where that's coming from. Just have a wander around the pits sometime and see the family efforts going on behind the scenes: Mum with the stopwatch and laptime sheet, topping up the cuppa's; Dad clucking around like a mother hen, nervously checking tyre pressures for the umpteenth time. Afterwards the bench racing begins as the barbies' get cranked up and the beers get sucked down. For the average punter with everything to lose and little to gain any interest shown by passers-by usually comes as a welcome and pleasant suprise.
"An attitude change is needed by the competitors" Once again I wonder at what has caused this misconception. Check out Shaun's career and then check out his posts here, if you've seen/heard a more down to earth world class Champion I'd like to hear about him/her. While I was working in Oz I bought an old ex-race bike that Broc Parkes (Aussie racing in World Supersport and previously World Superbikes) had been introduced to Superbikes on and he was more than happy to chat about it at a Yamaha promo trackday I fronted up to. Underneath the flash leathers and corporate smiles even the upper echelon of factory riders (5% of total racers?) are bike freaks just like the rest of us.
If you struggle to get involved with the local competition 'cos you don't now any of the names just have a stroll through the pits. Check out the young bloke or blokette who's mulling over which is the best of a lousy selection of seriously used tyres for their battered 5 year old pride and joy. Then follow their progress through a race as they try and chase down a moral victory over the later model steed in front of them.
Or pick a young "up and comer" pitting enthusiasm against experience as they battle for a podium with a more experienced rival.
For the morbid amongst you, hang around after someone has reversed the "shiny side up, rubber side down" formula. Watch as they come back into the pits with next weeks rent/beer/phone/petrol money effectively scattered on the back of the truck along with the rest of the broken bits. This is a long way from MotoGP where someone else is picking up the tab, this is the ultimate "User Pay's" scenario and the heartache is plain to see.

[slowpoke]

Jeeezus Ixion, here I was struggling to bash out a couple of words and you've written a bleedin' thesis! Ooooh, now there's an idea: Doctorate of Motorcycle Technology...time to go back to school me thinks!
Seriously, great effort with some very constructive ideas. Not that I agree with all them, but they are all worth considering...especially the creche idea. It seems obvious so I wonder if someone will pick up the idea and run with it.
I'm not so keen on the idea of long races. There IS a place for longer events but generally speaking at the smaller meetings I've been to they tend to end up fairly processional and the average spectator soon loses interest. They are also very expensive for the average competitor, with also sorts of flash wheel changing equipment, fuel rigs etc, not to mention the consumables themselves. Sprint races also encourage more spectacular "on the limit" riding which you just can't maintain for an extended period of time
OK, you aren't into the faired bikes, but I think the average spectator likes to see the biggest bad assed bikes around, you know the ones that look they are going light speed even when they are parked outside the local cafe, which like it or not, means a Gixxer, CBR, R1, ZX etc. I reckon they also want 'em to sound like the hounds of hell with their balls caught in a gin trap too, so let 'em at least bolt on a can of their choice, if not a full system.
As for spectators hanging around corners, I think the appeal lies in the cornering prowess: elbows bangin', knee down, sliders sparkin', backing it in, then boiling up the rear tyre as they get crossed up on the way out. Hmmmm, doesn't really sound like an SV650 does it?
I think you are right about a lot of people having a fascination for the mechanical side of things so the pits should always be free access. If the crews don't like it then they can rope off an alloted area but the spectators should still be able to get up close and personal.
And I've often thought to myself why local bike shops, motorcycle related businesses, or sponsors don't at least set up displays. The demo idea would be hard to control with all sorts of people joyriding with no serious aspirations towards buying anything, but it is worth thinking about.
Each to their own I guess, but those are some of the best suggestions I've heard so far. Well done Dr Ixion!

[Brian d marge]

friggen ekk that s tomorrow morning written off having a think about that one, To drunk now ( I an in training for the 60 ft table , and am trying to remove any sense of comon sense)

Stephen

[Shaun]

Ixion, bloody fantastic! I can gaurantee you that the powers that be will have a read of your thoughts. I have written so many things down over the years such as this, but if the office staff are non co-oporitive, these idea's go no where.

MY IDEA"S ON HOW TO HELP THE RACING SCENE

We have Paul Pavletich running the show at the MNZ office these days, ( EX Road race champion) and there is the AGM coming up next month where Sandra Perry is running for the boss's job! ( Paul and Sandra would have different rolls) Sandra ran MNZ when I first started racing nearlly 19 years ago, we had about the same amount of license holders then as we do now, Sandra ran this office with a staff of 2 only, and in my 19 years of being a share holder in the company I have not seen another person so dedicated and professional in her roll.

For any person to vote for Sandra, all they need to do is join a club $ 30 approx, then you have the write to vote through your club for Sandra to get the top job, at the moment, this is the most important step towards reviving road racing, we need a road person in there, the other fulla that is running for pres, is dirt focused, and if you read his press release on him self, he is also quite (confrontational?) - perhaps I should have stayed at school longer!

Iixon has hit it on the head I believe, his plan is the 2nd phase of road racing improvemnt after voting is done!

Now we need to vote for Sandra, tell all your friends, do not just talk about it, get off your arses and vote for it, because, we the racers get to race, but this sport is as much the spece's as the riders, probally more so, if you guys were not buying bikes and parts etc, we the skid merchants would have no skids to do, so once again, get out there and vote for Sandra Perry.

[Racey Rider]

Top effort Guys.
Will make sure my club gets a copy of that so it's not just wasted words.

.... Now we need to vote for Sandra Perry. .....

I was ready to vote for the other guy, as I liked his writeup.
But I know nothin about nothin.
So If you say Sandra the business,, I'll vote for her.

(your not getting any 'kickbacks' are you Shaun?? )

[TonyB]

Ixion- some top ideas in there mate. Could that possibly be the single largest KB post ever? That'd be about 2,500 Sniper posts

I guess you have a point with the plastic fantastic thing. A few years ago the NZ GP at Ruapuna was heavily advertised on radio and in the papers. It was $15 for the full weekend pass. The weather was perfect, but if there had been more than 750 spectators at the track I would have been surprised. I was shocked. Yet you head along to the Sound of Thunder and the place is packed. Go figure. Could it be that sprots bike riders would rather be out riding on a perfect day than watching someone else do it?? Or do they get bored watching too? I know I can't be bothered spectating for a whole day. There is invariably a lunch break that just drags on and on, and NOTHING happens. Somehow I have always managed to turn up about 1 race before the lunch break...

From a sponsors point of veiw, I need people to be able to SEE my rider, and their bike when they are on the other side of the track. I need somewhere to put my logos. The rider needs somewhere to put all the OTHER logos, cause lets face it, this is NZ- no one sponsor is going to stump up with enough $$$ to be a sole sponsor. Naked bikes have a tank (which the rider is wrapped around) and a tail piece- which will have the number on it. Where do the other sponsors and I put our logos? How do people follow 'my' rider when they are over 500m away at the far end of the track when the bike appears predominantly black at a distance-just like all the OTHER bikes. But enough of that.

Your ideas for making the racing more appealing for spectators and families are great. Just reading through it, it would seem that major clubs need to have a 'director of entertainment' who's major task is to ensure there's something to do for those who get bored. Like Ixion says, Bouncy Castles and rides for the kids. Beers and wines and decent food for adults- something happening on track ALL the time. Dealer displays with interested sales people.
The problem would be that you'd have to be prepared for some initial dissapointment- after decades of spectator unfriendly racing it would take a while for people to realise and accept that its a good day out.

[TonyB]

Just been talking to MrsB about this... crikey what a RANT!!!!
Ixion, she absolutely agrees with you on the lack of entertainment and facilities. Her point was that race meetings are run purely for the racers, there is no effort made to get the public involved. Only large meetings have programmes- yet even then they have no real info on the riders, no timetable "shit you don't even know when the bloody lunch break is going to be!!!" she said. Other points she raved about
-theres no commentary, except for large meetings and then you can't hear it. Maybe it needs to be broadcast on a low power FM station?? For instance at the last Canty Club meeting, Jon Lowther and Karel Pavich were out there- if you weren't a 'racer' or a knowledgeable enthusiast you'd have no idea you were watching an NZ champ, and a woman at that, the first one EVER.
-the food is crap and expensive (though personally I think the Canty Club meetings aren't too bad on this front)
-there's no beer or wine etc
-nothing for the kids to do.

So there you go. She absolutely agreed with Ixion.

[Kickaha]

I want decent toilets. And SHE absolutely demands them. Chicky type toilets. With nice stuff. Yeah I know, your three mates never objected to pissing behind the shed. Go find a woman and ask her for advice.

in the marketing studies our company has done if a woman goes somewhere and the toilets aren't clean and tidy she doesn't go back

I want something to drink. Like, beer. Yes, I know it's a race meeting. I'm not racing. I may not even be driving. I want a beer. SHE wants a glass of wine. In a proper glass, not a polystyrene cup. And something for the kids, too.

I've seen it done at car events with a proper bar area

And I want something to eat. I don't expect silveer service. I do want something more than a small carton of greasy half cold chips for $5. Give me some variety. Stalls and carts is OK, so long as the grub is OK. Personally I'm into grease - but SHE will want salads and healthy stuff like that. And some tables. Plastic ones will do, provided they've got some shade. Look at Paeroa at the BOTS. Go and look again. Take notes this time.

Again at the last car event I went to they had a dedicated food area, with a good variety of food, drinks etc and not just the standard hotdogs and chips (which I'm quite happy with)

I think the motorcycling communtiy could learn a bit from attending a few car races about how to look after the punters (this was a tier 2 meeting)

Kids? well Ruapuna at least has a kids play area with slides and swings and stuff

[FROSTY:Me]

I see the general point here being that from a spectators point of view road racing is boring.
Yet Peroa and whanganui have over 10000 turn up to attend every year.
Ok so whats so special about them??
Is it the bikes? correct me if Im wrong but arent they the self same bikes we see racing at club and national level?
Is it the riders being more in ya face ? possibly so --with everyone getting into the carnaval atmosphere.
Ya know I reckon the people to ask ??
Baby Bikie and Pillion - Why? well BB is a kid who loves to have fun -if it aint fun he gets bored Pillion because she ISN'T a dedicated biker -she does stuff cos she enjoys it. She has no biker bias.