Ride safe. Bollox!

[scumdog]

Aside from aviation, the licensing system in NZ is a complete joke, in-fact the whole reason the gun licence exists is kinda a joke, you should be well aware of this Scummy.

So how old and rigged was this paragon of truthfull and unemotional reporting (20/20).

And if you think the firearms licence is a joke (And I can assure you things have ratched up about ten notches in the last few months, go and make enquiries about getting one) how the hell would you describe out drivers licencing system??

Can't read?
Don't speak the language?
Never had any formal training?

Hey, we'll still give you a licence

[avgas]

Really? Gotta link to that 20/20 episode?
I was actually thinking of getting my firearms license in 2012. But I recall the crap they put my dad through 10 years ago when he got his renewed.
Lock this here, bolt this here, do this, do that. Re-sit this..........and that was just renewing it.

But to compare the 2 again.
Have a think about it, we test drivers against how they deal with other traffic, not actually on how they drive/ride.
Look at the 100's of threads on here about counter-steering.

People would seriously question the gun licensing system in NZ if a thread on a forum (or reg users), starting like this.
"Hi guys, just got a 243, and I want to know how to flick bullets like on that movie - Wanted"
or
"Hi guys, when I look down the barrel of my 22 I see a slight blockage, I have tried blowing down (even cut my lip on the sights)....but can't clear it"
People would cry bloody murder on the streets.
Yet I don't imagine many on NZ roads would know what to do if they started to slide on loose gravel in/on their vehicle.

[Ocean1]

Realistically if you were to argue against what I said you would have to compare to a country that doesn't have all the things I said.

No I wouldn't. I just have to note that continental roading systems tend towards cost effective straight lines, the number of corners is much lower and their motorways tend not to feature opposing traffic flows.

Not all accidents happen on corners, it's true. But most of 'em do, and with far more corners it'd be unusual if we didn't have more accidents, yes?

And if, say SH1 northbound is seperated from SH southbound by a 50 metres of shrubbery then the number of head-ons is likely to be less, no?

Our geography is a significant difference, as is the size of our roading infrastructure compared to our population.

[Scuba_Steve]

So how old and rigged was this paragon of truthfull and unemotional reporting (20/20).

And if you think the firearms licence is a joke (And I can assure you things have ratched up about ten notches in the last few months, go and make enquiries about getting one) how the hell would you describe out drivers licencing system??

Can't read?
Don't speak the language?
Never had any formal training?

Hey, we'll still give you a licence

Rigged? no. but yes there would have been a major overhaul after this aired & it was a year old now?
As for our driver licensing system I would describe it as utter & total shit, the only obstacle to obtaining one is money.

Really? Gotta link to that 20/20 episode?
I was actually thinking of getting my firearms license in 2012. But I recall the crap they put my dad through 10 years ago when he got his renewed.
Lock this here, bolt this here, do this, do that. Re-sit this..........and that was just renewing it.

But to compare the 2 again.
Have a think about it, we test drivers against how they deal with other traffic, not actually on how they drive/ride.
Look at the 100's of threads on here about counter-steering.

People would seriously question the gun licensing system in NZ if a thread on a forum (or reg users), starting like this.
"Hi guys, just got a 243, and I want to know how to flick bullets like on that movie - Wanted"
or
"Hi guys, when I look down the barrel of my 22 I see a slight blockage, I have tried blowing down (even cut my lip on the sights)....but can't clear it"
People would cry bloody murder on the streets.
Yet I don't imagine many on NZ roads would know what to do if they started to slide on loose gravel in/on their vehicle.

Na as mentioned I couldn't find 1, TVNZ no longer has an active link, but as mentioned above they've probably had a major overhaul of the testing since the airing

I did get a chuckle outta your gun examples tho

[avgas]

Our geography is a significant difference, as is the size of our roading infrastructure compared to our population.

So the question is left.
If something is more difficult. Does it not require more training?
Or should we simply try and cut all the corners out of the country?

NZ should be compared against the rest of the world, and then we need to acknowledge we have a problem with driving and riding here.
"She'll be right approach" is not acceptable in situations where one person can kill another.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes. It's become very easy to switch off, eh?

And it seems, perversly, that everything that's done to make us safer reduces the stimulation needed to retain focus.

If it's not obvious I believe they're on the wrong track, here...

So the question is left.
If something is more difficult. Does it not require more training?
Or should we simply try and cut all the corners out of the country?

NZ should be compared against the rest of the world, and then we need to acknowledge we have a problem with driving and riding here.
"She'll be right approach" is not acceptable in situations where one person can kill another.

Be all means try to engineer roads to mitigate the actions of idiots. There comes a point when all that does is create boredom for many, and allows for the development of better idiots.
We've been at the point of diminishing returns for a few years now. Surely it's time to stop doing more of the same shit, and alter the focus on what needs fixing?
But no, it seems tptb would rather we get speed control devices and other such shit to stop the carnage. Eventually, no human input will be required to move people/vehicles about. And then we can finally relax and not be concerned with idiots...

[Mogwa]

Revenue gathering indeed....

I got a camera ticket last new years eve doin 57 in a 50 for $30 buck. hardly worth the admin. does it make me go slower? NO. there has never been an accident in that area either. Not every bike has a big bright digital speedo, mine is analogue, in miles and the k's are tiny. REVENUE GATHERING. Cages annoy the shit outa me wen they sit side by side in a passing lane doin the same speed ...104 or less. Thats the sort of stupidity that causes accidents. Im Not in a rush i just got somewhere to be, and id rather do the upper tolerace of the speed limit consistently to reduce the overall time im riding, and therefore reduce the chance of an accident

[Ocean1]

So the question is left.
If something is more difficult. Does it not require more training?
Or should we simply try and cut all the corners out of the country?

NZ should be compared against the rest of the world, and then we need to acknowledge we have a problem with driving and riding here.
"She'll be right approach" is not acceptable in situations where one person can kill another.

The difference creating that particular difficulty is the seriously wrinkley landscape. By all means offer better (or any) driving/riding training, it's a better idea than "realigning" the fuck out of everything. Be aware, though that that aproach is frowned upon by those who set policy on such things.

I went to the trouble, once of attending a very expensive driving course under the auspices of the local police force. I found for the most part it was less than helpful, wheras I wanted to learn how to handle a vehicle in a compromised situation they wanted to teach me that should I find myself in such a situation I'd be dead. Policy, see, was such that they wished to instil into everyone that such situations were to be avoided at any cost, so there was no point at all in training for such eventualities. I found a better school.

By all means compare NZ with whatever you like, it can be informitive, if one collects the data and compares it BEFORE forming an opinion on it. It can also find comparisons that reinforce a preconcieved viewpoint, in which case I'm sure you'll find exactly what you want there also, no matter what that viewpoint. just make sure you flag the differences, eh? there's little point in comparing NZ to countries with quite different conditions.

As for the aceptability of "she'll be right"? I'm afraid the term reveals the likely presence of one of those preconcieved constructs I mentioned. Personally I find the risk of dying on NZ roads acceptable. Wouldn't be doing it otherwise. And in case you're actually looking for data, rather than amunition that risk reaches parity at about one hundred and ten million kilometres. I've got some wee way to go, and who knows, perhaps if I'm real careful and very lucky I might squeeze in 2000,000,000 before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

[Ocean1]

Be all means try to engineer roads to mitigate the actions of idiots. There comes a point when all that does is create boredom for many, and allows for the development of better idiots.

Dude, I'd be happy if they un-engineered some of the latest initiatives, like any roadside furniture on the outside of corners. Including, but not limited to cheasecutters.

PS: I note mention in the Safer Roads document the liklihood of further reductions in rural open road speed limits. I see vast tracts of 90k roading in our immediate future.

[MSTRS:Me]

Dude, I'd be happy if they un-engineered some of the latest initiatives, like any roadside furniture on the outside of corners. Including, but not limited to cheasecutters.

Roadside (and centre) barriers that can and do kill bikers. In the pursuit of making the road/s safer. Don't get me started...
I hold a patent on a brilliant road safety device. It's a big, sharp spike that's fitted to every car's steering wheel But do you think I can interest anyone in buying it.

[scumdog]

Roadside (and centre) barriers that can and do kill bikers. In the pursuit of making the road/s safer. Don't get me started...

'Cheescutters' have killed one biker so far.
(As far as I'm aware of)

How many bikers have been killed by cars crossing the centre of the road into their path? (And I'm not talking about SMIDSY incidents here)

[MSTRS:Me]

'Cheescutters' have killed one biker so far.
(As far as I'm aware of)

A cheesecutter was involved in the death of one biker. He was not an innocent victim tho...
Armco posts have taken quite a few, and I KNOW that some of those riders were totally innocent.
But fit a bottom rail? Not on your nelly. I've had the word from 'on high'