Dangerous roads, are we playing the blame game?

[Conquiztador]

Sorry dude. You lost my interest about 1/3 in to the writing. Why? Well, as someone who has looked in to the info your are writing about I found your essay boring and lacking of anything new. And I would assume that someone who does not worry re this would also glanze over and move on.

So what to do?
- If you write articles try to make it about someone. It adds a personal touch (Maree crashed on the motorway outside Western Springs in 2007, she is now in a wheelchair...)
- Make it interesting (Did you know that in 2003 males who had just been to a brothel was the ones who crashed most...)
- Give jolts to the reader (Based on current statistics inside 5 years one person you know will be a road casualty...)
- Give hope ( Research show that if all riders/drivers do a refreshing course then...)

And I could go on. But I think you get the drift. Spend heaps of time on research!

I applaud your initiative but you need to raise the bar.

[The Singing Chef]

Sorry dude. You lost my interest about 1/3 in to the writing. Why? Well, as someone who has looked in to the info your are writing about I found your essay boring and lacking of anything new. And I would assume that someone who does not worry re this would also glanze over and move on.

So what to do?
- If you write articles try to make it about someone. It adds a personal touch (Maree crashed on the motorway outside Western Springs in 2007, she is now in a wheelchair...)
- Make it interesting (Did you know that in 2003 males who had just been to a brothel was the ones who crashed most...)
- Give jolts to the reader (Based on current statistics inside 5 years one person you know will be a road casualty...)
- Give hope ( Research show that if all riders/drivers do a refreshing course then...)

And I could go on. But I think you get the drift.

I applaud your initiative but you need to raise the bar.

Cheers for the input bro, you have some good ideas.

[Brian407]

Bling for putting this writing. If only it would fit in a signature box.

If Brian407 is still around, I'd suggest that this is the cause that MCSAC et al are looking for, and it's a more sure-fire way for bikers and biking organisations to be taken seriously if this is the agenda we use.

Gets my vote, big time.

[Paul in NZ]

Um - there is a skill deficit and an emotional skill deficit to be addressed here.

There is something about petrol fumes that turns normal people into insanely competitive killers with limited reasoning powers and an overly optimistic attitude…

Somehow you could work that in during your edit ;-)

[baffa]

Despite our appalling driving, in the scheme of things, fatalities per capita really isnt all that bad.
However if the govt really wanted to improve the driving abilities of this country, they would make the licensing system a lot more rigid, and retest all drivers every 5 years.
People may start out as patient courteous drivers, but within a couple of years that quickly goes down hill. Add to that it is family that often teaches us how to drive, and most parents I know are far from qualified to give any real driving advice.

If you resit your license after 5 years and cannot prove you are a safe and confident driver, you have to resit the test once you have completed training, or you lose your license and have to start again.

[Oblivion]

Its great that your taking the initiative to do something about this. I'm sick of having to ride like I know that someone is out to get me.

Few things though.

Like Conquizator(?) said, you need to make it more captivating. If you send it to the LTNZ/NZTA they'll read it, but that it because they are obliged to. But for people like us, If you lose our attention, like happened to me 3/4 of the way through, its a fail. Keep at it

Add footnotes. Show all of your sources at the bottom, and citate all of them as well. This show that you arent making only generalisations, but are backing up with facts.


Just a personal thing here, but a few days ago I saw a Learner driver in a 4L BMW. What is stopping people from hopping in a 8L Ferrari and driving away. Theres nothing. My bike is a single cylinder GN250. My car is a 1.5L Honda Civic. Why? Because I have the common sense to not go beyond my boundaries too quickly. Hell, when you have to do a multiple choie test to get your 1L, The only thing that I can see stopping someone from getting a Ferrari is the insurance premium

[Bassmatt]

[QUOTE=SMOKEU;1130231850] Most NZ drivers lack the ability to even indicate properly at a roundabout, and if they can't even master such a basic task, then why are they even allowed to operate a motor vehicle on a public road?

I couldnt agree more, I think the same thing about the Give Way rule everyone complains about. If its "too hard" to understand get of the fucking road.

[James Deuce]

Its great that your taking the initiative to do something about this. I'm sick of having to ride like I know that someone is out to get me.

Few things though.

Like Conquizator(?) said, you need to make it more captivating. If you send it to the LTNZ/NZTA they'll read it, but that it because they are obliged to. But for people like us, If you lose our attention, like happened to me 3/4 of the way through, its a fail. Keep at it

Add footnotes. Show all of your sources at the bottom, and citate all of them as well. This show that you arent making only generalisations, but are backing up with facts.


Just a personal thing here, but a few days ago I saw a Learner driver in a 4L BMW. What is stopping people from hopping in a 8L Ferrari and driving away. Theres nothing. My bike is a single cylinder GN250. My car is a 1.5L Honda Civic. Why? Because I have the common sense to not go beyond my boundaries too quickly. Hell, when you have to do a multiple choie test to get your 1L, The only thing that I can see stopping someone from getting a Ferrari is the insurance premium

No such thing as a modern eight litre Ferrari and if you can afford to buy a Ferrari you can afford the insurance premium.

[caspernz]

Um - there is a skill deficit and an emotional skill deficit to be addressed here.

There is something about petrol fumes that turns normal people into insanely competitive killers with limited reasoning powers and an overly optimistic attitude…

Somehow you could work that in during your edit ;-)

Haha, I like the emotional skill deficit line.... That must be the reason why so many Kiwi drivers are rather combative behind the wheel, very unforgiving of even the slightest inconvenience to them.

All for having a much harder licence test, as well as the 5 year retest. It's high time the nonsense of being trained by just anyone with a licence comes to an end. Imagine the growth in driving instructors and assessors such a change would require...and how many folks might just drive unlicensed.

[scumdog]

Too many of the accidents on NZ aren't.

They are actually crashes caused by incompetence, arrogance or ignorance. (And often in the company of a certain amount of dumb-arse bravado)

Ban parents/siblings/friends training kids - all they do is pass on bad habits, just enough of them for the kid to 'pass' their licence 'test'.

Bring in compulsory driver training that has to be passed before attempting the driving licence test.

[Brian407]

Too many of the accidents on NZ aren't.

They are actually crashes caused by incompetence, arrogance or ignorance. (And often in the company of a certain amount of dumb-arse bravado)

Ban parents/siblings/friends training kids - all they do is pass on bad habits, just enough of them for the kid to 'pass' their licence 'test'.

Bring in compulsory driver training that has to be passed before attempting the driving licence test.

WooHoo... Now we're talking. This HAS to happen before anything else will change.

[Edbear]

Aside from young drivers aged between 20 - 24, who are the "high risk" drivers?

A significant factor in our road toll is the fact that our roads are bad by international standards. Now I'm not saying that bad roads are an excuse for bad driving, but good roads allow more room for error than bad roads. Humans are not perfect, and even the best of us will make the occasional error. In South Africa, the open roads are much better in general than NZ. I have travelled thousands of kms on South African roads, and the roads there are much wider than our roads, and are in a much better condition overall. There are huge concrete barriers to separate oncoming traffic, and very long multi laned motorways are common over there. I have driven at the 120kmh speed limit on long trips, and found that it's quite boring as the roads are so well engineered.

However, poor driver education is the main factor in our road toll I believe. Most NZ drivers lack the ability to even indicate properly at a roundabout, and if they can't even master such a basic task, then why are they even allowed to operate a motor vehicle on a public road? You wouldn't let your mate who can't even ride a 50cc scooter to ride an R1, so why are we letting these people on our roads? I have also noticed being a passenger in cars, that many people brake reasonably hard mid corner as a matter of their daily routine instead of doing all their braking before the corner. It's this lack of education that is killing us because few people actually know how to drive properly. We should have compulsory driver education in high schools, and all drivers should be made to do a practical driving test as well as a theory test every 2 - 3 years. People tend to get complacent after they have been driving for a long time, and they think that just because they haven't had a crash in 10+ years that they are a good driver.

I agree, and the school is a good place to do it. Make it a voluntary part of the curriculum and anyone who opts not to do it has to pay for their own driver training later if they change their mind after leaving school.

High risk drivers are classed as "The Ministry of Transport report shows that between 2005 and 2009, 642 people were killed in crashes where high-risk drivers were at fault.

The report defines high-risk drivers as unlicensed and disqualified drivers, those with previous speed and alcohol offences, or those who engage in high-risk behaviour (eg driving with a high blood alcohol content, evading enforcement or illegal street racing) at the time of the crash."
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/n...h-risk-drivers

And I fully agree that better quality and thought through roading would help, but it is a matter of making do with what we have available.

I agree as well about the poor driver training and any kind of awareness training, I had alot more stuff to put into it but thought it was long enough as is so will leave it for the second article.

Far more so than the road condition, too!

When i did my car test after many many years riding only bikes it was very well done i sat it 3 times as i got in automatic and
then resat when got my mx5 manuall who want s auto mx5 yuk.
And i got told few times for driving to fast and i had to pick out 3 or chould been more , pontienal accident risks
he asked me after passed stretch road what did i observe chould been a risk ie a driway obscured etc was good i thought
And when got my last test in my auto lazer i had 2 people one watching me and another watching the instructor.
They asked me weather was okay with me though i said sure. shit i was in my 40s and was nervous as hell hehe
crazy its that not wanting to fail esp going cost you more money esp the theroy.

thats not to say your wrong just another point view i think test have improved remarkable to be honest.
I did this with AA here in pammy thye reko i took to driving manuall like duck to water and was easy , just goes to show
what bit age and desire to do something can do for you , no one wants to be bad driver do they.

I rekon those mantrol adds are good thing funny too. for sure when your young u do silly things , i once jamed on brakes
and crashed of my bike (thought at the time was wonder what will happen) um yes not my finest hour

Welcome another MX5 owner! We have a '94 1800 manual and agree about the auto.

maybe the driver training needs to be formalized.
you now have parents more or less teaching kids not to hit the first tree right away, together with a 'she'll/he'll be right attitude" shit will hit the fan.

it is simply to easy, to cheap and to meaningless to get a driver/rider lisence in NZ.

as for the BHS.....what a farce, i am still amazed I am actually alive today....

I can't bling you twice in a row...

[avgas]

Motorist blame anything but their driving/riding.
The Government blames the roads.
The Road worker blames the poor budget.
The tax payer blames the government.

Fact of the matter is there is a personal disinterest in people to find their limits off road.......before they take said vehicle on the road. "I'm not some kind of hoon".
So when the shit hits the fan - the blame games starts and the nanny state hugs the moron and says "there there, its ok, it wasn't your fault".

Its a damn sight easier than saying we are all fucking morons, and that limit testing for all (not just rally drivers) is required.

[BM-GS]

Blame game? Who knows what most people on the road are playing at...

Was heading down SH2 last week (trailer of dirt-bikes on the back, kids in the car, etc) when bloke on a 250/400 runs out of room to get past at the end of the overtaking lane....

Plus point for him: he didn't assume I'd seen him, or that my hugging the hash-makrs on the left meant anything other than I wasn't paying attention.
Minus points: he didn't stay behind me, but sat next to the trailer as I ran out of tarmac and had to move back into the lane, where he still was! If I hadn't seen him there I could easily have swatted him into the other lane. Even if I had seen him, I was going to put my life and my kids' lives ahead of his when the road ran out. I flicked down the window & waved him past (I hope he can tell the difference between a "come on past" wave and a "get the f*ck out of it" wave), so I didn't have him there (needing to be kept an eye on), rather than from any desire to let him on his merry way unencumbered by my 90kmh top speed. Oh, that stretch is 90kmh now...

Not sure if his stop in Ngatea was to tell his mates how crap the driving is on SH2 or to recover from the incident, but 2 things:

1. Never put your safety in some other bugger's hands - even if they've seen you, they may not care.
2. Do or do not, there is no point half-overtaking somebody. See point 1.

Yes, I was young & foolish once. Yes, I used to compare notes when I arrived at my first job with the other bikers to see who had the most/best close-calls on the way in. Being older & wiser, I can now see that most of it was probably me being stupid, but I never forgot that it hurts less to learn from other people's mistakes rather than your own, and that while you can ride assertively, being aggressive will end badly.

Stand by the the NZ cops to go French and require riders to wear flouro-gear all the time. Probably a month after they make it a law in Victoria...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...rom-next-year/

[MSTRS:Me]

Stand by the the NZ cops to go French and require riders to wear flouro-gear all the time. Probably a month after they make it a law in Victoria...

Tis merely the authorities giving the impression that they are doing something, and amounts to nothing more than a lot of the crap OSH shit that is foisted on us...that is, someone else may be at fault but let's lay the responsibility at the feet of *whoever*...
The other side of the same coin is...if I'm wearing dayglo, I don't have to be so vigilant 'cos they'll have seen me.

Imagine the aftermath...
Officer Scumdog: So what happened?
Mr SMIDSY: Well, I was just entering the intersection when WHAM, this motorcycle run straight into me driver's door.
OS: Really? So how did you not see him? He had his headlight on and was wearing hi-vis like the law requires.
Mr S: Funny you should say that. I did catch a flash of colour just before he hit me. Not like the one last year...I didn't see him at all before he hit me. Same intersection too, now that I think about it. Both of them just came out of nowhere...they had to have been speeding. Bloody hoons on bikes, eh?.