Signs of the time

[Ocean1]

Came home around Grays rd last night, and it occured to me, (not for the first time) that there was rather a lot of signage on the roadside. I started to take note of each one, and immediately noticed that too much of my attention was being diverted from the road itself for comfort. It was dark, of course, and as I've also noticed before the reflective paint on some of the signs caused some difficulty with seeing the road beyond them.

Duno how many signs there are on that bit, by the time I thought to count I was on Haywards hill. I did start counting from there, though and I can tell you there are exactly 100 signs before the motorway ends north of Upper Hutt. That's just the ones our friendly constabulary might say "tsk tsk" should we fail to be able to recount the signs' message, doesn't include street signs. That's one every 3 or 4 seconds.

There's too many of them, if you take the time to read and absorb the contents of each I think there's every chance you're not paying enough attention to the road and the task of remaining on it. It's almost like every time there's an incident someone says "failed to take the corner, eh? Get out ther and bung a few of those fancy new chevron things on that corner, and one of them keep left ones for good measure, that'll fix it."

Are they doing more harm than good? I'm an arrogant cnut, given the choice of watching the road or the signs I reckon I'm a better judge of what I need see than they are.

[scumdog]

I hear you.

Counted the signs between two of the towns down here (when I was really REALLY bored) and counted over 100.

And that's on a 20km stretch of open road.

My current hate is authorities putting nice orange cones around a potential hazard (fallen tree branch etc) - instead of just getting rid of the obstacle.

And don't get me going on the 'cure' for tar-bleed etc - a sign with the word "SLIPPERY" or "GRIT/GRAVEL"

[Ocean1]

- a sign with the word "SLIPPERY" or "GRIT/GRAVEL"

Preceeded by a sign saying "CAUTION, SIGN AHEAD"?

[jrandom]

Yes. I remember coming back from Tauranga late one wet and windy night last year, via Pyes Pa, on my '88 DR750 with brand new Metzeler Tourances that I was still getting used to. I'd had a big moment with the rear end just heading off of its own accord in the pissing rain on the way over so I wasn't too happy with them.

Nothing I could do about it in the pitch black and the storm, just had to ride it. And the DR had a headlight that doesn't turn with the bars. I'm not used to that.

C'est la vie and all, but the orange 'danger danger slippery oh noes' signs every 50 metres or so all the way along the road achieved nothing other than making me shit myself instead of relaxing and getting on with it.

[FJRider]

... I hear you.

Is it not correct ... such roadside signs need Transit NZ approval PRIOR to their installation ... ???

[Tigadee]

Duno how many signs there are on that bit, by the time I thought to count I was on Haywards hill. I did start counting from there, though and I can tell you there are exactly 100 signs before the motorway ends north of Upper Hutt. That's just the ones our friendly constabulary might say "tsk tsk" should we fail to be able to recount the signs' message, doesn't include street signs. That's one every 3 or 4 seconds.

This way we can't use the excuse that we didn't see any signs to the effect:
Caught speeding? "There're plenty of speed limit signs about"
U-turned where you're not supposed to? "Plenty of signs about..."
Overtook when you shouldn't have? "Plenty of signs about..."

Like the thread about inconsistent speed limits on one long highway, it seems like another tactic to be able to issue tickets to the unwary...

[cheshirecat]

All the extra signage is deliberate by TNZ since it initiates "traffic calming". Like planting trees and big fat bushes on roundabouts and around intersections. The solution is to slow down, suitably calm one's self then accelerate like shit until reaching the next sign 0.00045 seconds later. Repeat until all traffic is calmed or the unlikely event in running out of signs.

[vifferman]

SO may times lately, there's been warning signs, speed limits imposed, blah blah blah, and then...
.... nothing.

Except cones.

So.... there's warning signs because of the cones? And cones put out to protect the cones (or protect us from the cones? )


WTF...?

[Scuba_Steve]

This way we can't use the excuse that we didn't see any signs to the effect:
Caught speeding? "There're plenty of speed limit signs about"
U-turned where you're not supposed to? "Plenty of signs about..."
Overtook when you shouldn't have? "Plenty of signs about..."

Try & find one when you need tho

[Berries]

It's almost like every time there's an incident someone says "failed to take the corner, eh? Get out ther and bung a few of those fancy new chevron things on that corner, and one of them keep left ones for good measure, that'll fix it."

Are they doing more harm than good? I'm an arrogant cnut, given the choice of watching the road or the signs I reckon I'm a better judge of what I need see than they are.

What can you do? I prefer the UK approach. A sign prior to the corner that shows whether it is easy, moderate, really bad or a hairpin. And that's it. No 'advisory' speed, just a bit of guidance because you can't see round the corner. Here, because you have all the signs, it only takes a crash on a corner where there is no sign for someone to point out there are 50 others like it that are signed. So a sign goes up. And suddenly you can't not sign a corner because all of the other ones are signed. Vicious circle really, and they aren't done yet. Crash on a curve that is signed and it'll be brought up to the latest standard, nice big chevron board and a few smaller ones, even if the driver/rider was a complete twat, which nine times out of ten they are.

Is it not correct ... such roadside signs need Transit NZ approval PRIOR to their installation ... ???

It is they who request that the signs go up.

[Ocean1]

What can you do?

I understood there was set criteria for corners requiring an advisory sign. Perhaps not.

I particularly dislike those chevrons, they're always on the outside of a corner that by definition is more likely to see you wanting to use that space.

I guess what I'm saying is that sign density has exceeded the point where most people see them as advertising anything unusual and simply ignore them. So we're back to reading the road on it's merits, (which is no bad thing) and for riders the signs have become merely another piece of dangerous roadside furniture.

[oneofsix]

What can you do? I prefer the UK approach. A sign prior to the corner that shows whether it is easy, moderate, really bad or a hairpin. And that's it. No 'advisory' speed, just a bit of guidance because you can't see round the corner. Here, because you have all the signs, it only takes a crash on a corner where there is no sign for someone to point out there are 50 others like it that are signed. So a sign goes up. And suddenly you can't not sign a corner because all of the other ones are signed. Vicious circle really, and they aren't done yet. Crash on a curve that is signed and it'll be brought up to the latest standard, nice big chevron board and a few smaller ones, even if the driver/rider was a complete twat, which nine times out of ten they are.


It is they who request that the signs go up.

Yeah I really like the ones that light up so bright they blind you and the ones that flash slow down before you even get to the breaking point, I can only imagine the effect they have on the can't drives. Well the truth is the effect they had on the wife as passenger and therefore not fully in touch with when the slowing really had to occur or what was already happening, she initially just believed the sign, doesn't make for domestic harmony . Why, when they are only warning signs, do they have to be so bright that they affect your vision? Surely it is safer to let you have unimpeded vision of the hazard? Perhaps they had a point and I should have slowed down due to the blinding brightness of the sign

[MSTRS:Me]

I understood there was set criteria for corners requiring an advisory sign. Perhaps not.

Apparently there is. The tool used? A plumb bob hanging in front of a left/right scale. The amount of separation from vertical as indicated by the scale denotes the 'safe speed' for that corner. Or, as some believe, the roll-over point of a big truck.

...and for riders the signs have become merely another piece of dangerous roadside furniture.

That, and a matter of pride/boasting rights...."I took that 55kph corner, you know, the one etc, at mumblemumble kph"

What fucks me off is all the totally unnecessary speed advisories on any given road, and the one corner that REALLY needs one, doesn't.

[ckai]

I was reading up a few months back about a couple of towns, one in Germany I think and one in the UK, that ripped out all their road signage. EVERYTHING! The idea is that drivers have enough courtesy and brains to think for themselves. They decided it because their accident rates were way higher than the national. Their accident rates dropped by at least half if I can recall. It could have been more for one of them.

With removing the signs, they removed the speed limits and they found people drove around 10 km/h slower than what the speed limit would have been. I think the town in Germany has some knarly roads with heaps of warning signs but people still crashed. When they removed everything, the self-induced crashing just stopped.

Apparently these towns both had shit loads of signage because the local authorities thought it was the only way. They were pretty much used as guinea pigs to prove too much signage detracts and has the opposite effect of the intended use.

I wish I could find the article again.

[Clockwork]

What can you do? I prefer the UK approach. A sign prior to the corner that shows whether it is easy, moderate, really bad or a hairpin. And that's it. No 'advisory' speed, just a bit of guidance because you can't see round the corner. Here, because you have all the signs, it only takes a crash on a corner where there is no sign for someone to point out there are 50 others like it that are signed. So a sign goes up. And suddenly you can't not sign a corner because all of the other ones are signed. Vicious circle really, and they aren't done yet. Crash on a curve that is signed and it'll be brought up to the latest standard, nice big chevron board and a few smaller ones, even if the driver/rider was a complete twat, which nine times out of ten they are.


It is they who request that the signs go up.

It's been a while since I drove in the UK but as I recall that the number of chevrons visible seemed to indicate the severity of the bend.