More median barriers requested

[Conquiztador]

Here: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8...18-road-deaths

And we are talking about cheese cutters... requested by Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car review website dogandlemon.com.

[SMOKEU]

Knowing the stupidity of politicians, it doesn't surprise me that these will become more and more common on NZ roads. My mum (who works as a nurse) has personally seen 2 motorcyclists decapitated by these.

[Tigadee]

AA spokesman Simon Lambourne : "...safer drivers in safer cars, on safer roads travelling at safer speeds."

The dork doesn't seem to realise that the drivers need to drive safely and at safer speeds in the first place. As with guns, it's people who are dangerous, not the roads or cars.

[paturoa]

Just sent him an email via his D&L site:

I'm deeply concerned at your request for more wire rope median barriers.

However I support your call for more barriers, but please no more cheese cutters.

These are extremely dangerous for motorcycle riders and many other countries no longer install them in the configuration used in NZ.

The configuration of the steel posts and ropes guarentees a fatality or critical injury on any contact. Overseas they are retrofitting solid covers or are progressively replacing them with smooth concrete or full height steel "armco" barriers, so that the riders slide off them with a glancing blow.

Next time you are driving past in your car, can I request that you visualise yourself sliding along the road into one of these death traps. Please try to imagine if there is any way that a motorcyclist could avoid death or critical injury.

Also you may wish to investigate the effectiveness of these barriers for large vehicles. Most trucks just go straight through them.

In all seriousness, it would be hard to come up with a barrier design that could be more dangerous for motorcyclists.

I'm happy to direct you to further resources should you be interested.

[bogan]

The AA estimates installing wire ropes and rumble strips could prevent up to 90 road deaths per year - nearly a third of the current road toll.

I think the AA is being somewhat optimistic there.

Since a median barrier had been installed on the Waikato Expressway a vehicle had hit it about once a week.

"That's once a week we have avoided a head-on crash.

Pretty sure the other side of the road doesn't always have traffic on it, and there is still a m or two for maneuvering after the vehicle would encounter the WRB zone.

But why settle for realism, when you can use propaganda instead

[paturoa]

Does anyone have an email addy for the Simon Lambourne character?

His quotes sounds sensible and he doesn't appear to mention cheese cutters.

[MSTRS:Me]

Knowing the stupidity of politicians, it doesn't surprise me that these will become more and more common on NZ roads. My mum (who works as a nurse) has personally seen 2 motorcyclists decapitated by these.

Not here in NZ, tho. In saying that, there was one death/dismemberment here although the rider did themselves no favours.
Still - it's not rocket science, eh? Hit a narrow steel post at any sort of speed, and the result will not be pretty.
Seen the posts they're using for Armco now?

[BMWST?]

its the silly overtaking and inconsiderate driving that causes most of the centreline excursions ,even if no excess speed occurs we will normally see closing speeds of 160 or more.

[Conquiztador]

Dear Mr Mattew-Wilson

As a motorbike rider I am alarmed about the increase in wire-rope median barriers (Cheese Cutters). I have also noticed that they are now also used on the outside of the roads.

If you have ever been riding a motorbike in traffic you would know how a rider needs to always have a exit strategy clear in case something goes wrong. By fitting these cheese cutters on the roads that option is eliminated for us bikers. Hitting the wire barrier is not an option, and so I now find my self planning to hit the car and jump from the bike flying over the car, as I have lost the option of going off the road or crossing the middle to escape.

The wire rope barriers we are currently fitting in NZ are in most developed countries being modified and retro-fitted with covers. And in many countries they are not fitted anymore as a result of their danger to riders, but also as a result of them being in-effective when it really counts.

One thing that always surprises me is the amount of money we are prepared to spend on saving lives of road users. You quote a cost between $550 million to $1.1 billion to fit the barriers to 370 Km's of road. This, apperently, would save 90 lives per year. We are currently spending $300 million/year in policing the roads and $290 million in road upgrades. The total road deaths are yearly around 400. I do agree that this is 400 that should not have died. But at the same time we have close to 500 suicides a year and we spend $1.38 million/year in prevention... (I also 2 days ago had a discussion with someone in the know who told me that over 400 people died yearly in hospitals as a result of wrong medication being distributed...)

I therefore question the logic in spending millions per person saved on the road when there are areas where thousands would save the same amount of lives.

Personally I advocate for better driver/rider training, compulsory follow up training, regular medical tests to determine if a person is fit to drive/ride, instead of more draconian mesures and huge spending on barriers, signs, rumble lines and other measures that only contribute to take away responsibility from the individuals.

[Haggis2]

Dear Mr Mattew-Wilson

As a motorbike rider I am alarmed about the increase in wire-rope median barriers (Cheese Cutters). I have also noticed that they are now also used on the outside of the roads.

If you have ever been riding a motorbike in traffic you would know how a rider needs to always have a exit strategy clear in case something goes wrong. By fitting these cheese cutters on the roads that option is eliminated for us bikers. Hitting the wire barrier is not an option, and so I now find my self planning to hit the car and jump from the bike flying over the car, as I have lost the option of going off the road or crossing the middle to escape.

The wire rope barriers we are currently fitting in NZ are in most developed countries being modified and retro-fitted with covers. And in many countries they are not fitted anymore as a result of their danger to riders, but also as a result of them being in-effective when it really counts.

One thing that always surprises me is the amount of money we are prepared to spend on saving lives of road users. You quote a cost between $550 million to $1.1 billion to fit the barriers to 370 Km's of road. This, apperently, would save 90 lives per year. We are currently spending $300 million/year in policing the roads and $290 million in road upgrades. The total road deaths are yearly around 400. I do agree that this is 400 that should not have died. But at the same time we have close to 500 suicides a year and we spend $1.38 million/year in prevention... (I also 2 days ago had a discussion with someone in the know who told me that over 400 people died yearly in hospitals as a result of wrong medication being distributed...)

I therefore question the logic in spending millions per person saved on the road when there are areas where thousands would save the same amount of lives.

Personally I advocate for better driver/rider training, compulsory follow up training, regular medical tests to determine if a person is fit to drive/ride, instead of more draconian mesures and huge spending on barriers, signs, rumble lines and other measures that only contribute to take away responsibility from the individuals.

Well said

[skinman]

Dear Mr Mattew-Wilson



.

Very good. Bling sent

You are now the proud recipient of my very 1st bling

[paturoa]

Just sent him an email via his D&L site:

I'm deeply concerned at your request for more wire rope median barriers.

However I support your call for more barriers, but please no more cheese cutters.

These are extremely dangerous for motorcycle riders and many other countries no longer install them in the configuration used in NZ.

The configuration of the steel posts and ropes guarentees a fatality or critical injury on any contact. Overseas they are retrofitting solid covers or are progressively replacing them with smooth concrete or full height steel "armco" barriers, so that the riders slide off them with a glancing blow.

Next time you are driving past in your car, can I request that you visualise yourself sliding along the road into one of these death traps. Please try to imagine if there is any way that a motorcyclist could avoid death or critical injury.

Also you may wish to investigate the effectiveness of these barriers for large vehicles. Most trucks just go straight through them.

In all seriousness, it would be hard to come up with a barrier design that could be more dangerous for motorcyclists.

I'm happy to direct you to further resources should you be interested.

I just got a response from him, which I must say is excellent!

"I share your concern about unguarded wire rope barriers. I have never suggested that these be installed. I have called for wire rope barriers to be installed, along with properly fitted plastic covers.

I suggest you read the following report:

http://www.eurorap.org/library/pdfs/20081202_Bikers.pdf

cheers

Clive Matthew-Wilson
editor
Dogandlemon.com"

I'm going to respond and point him at the MSN site that omits that piece.

[Conquiztador]

"I share your concern about unguarded wire rope barriers. I have never suggested that these be installed. I have called for wire rope barriers to be installed, along with properly fitted plastic covers.

I suggest you read the following report:

http://www.eurorap.org/library/pdfs/20081202_Bikers.pdf

cheers

Clive Matthew-Wilson"

And my as quick reply:

Hi Clive
You might be interested in the following: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...utter-campaign>


Re you not advocating for wire rope barriers, sadly the article that prompted me to write to you states the opposite in the following quote: “[/FONT]Figures he obtained under the Official Information Act show it would cost between $550 million and $1.1 billion to install wire rope median barriers on 372 kilometres of high risk, high traffic volume roads that don't currently have a median barrier.”>>
Taken from: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8...18-road-deaths

Perhaps you could try to correct it? (Not sure re how this could be done, but currently bikers in NZ would see you as someone who advocates for the cheese cutters…)

[Brian407]

Very well put, and bound to make him think, but remember one thing. You are writing to a member of the AUTOMOBILE Association, and to him Automobiles have more than two wheels. For the most part they dont give a flying fark about motorcyclists because most of their paid up members are car owners and it's thier interests they're charged with looking after. Sure, some motorcyclists are members of the AA, but the majority of members are car owners, as is evidenced by the number of bike articles that appear in thier mag. Maybe 2 a year if were lucky.

[rachprice]

They should really call for tougher licensing tests and having to re-sit tests after you have lost your license for danger use of motor vehicle which should be even tougher than getting your license