How hard can it be?

[oneofsix]

Apparently I don't give up, this I just couldn't resist.

Blame? When the fuck did I say blame, or even imply blame. I'm talking responsibility. Taking responsibility for your own safety. Do you get that? If not, please find someone you do trust who is more intelligent than you to explain the difference. It may just save your life one day.

'Lucky enough'? Luck ain't got nothing to do with it. Luck would've been me staring blankly waiting for the light to change when I glanced down at the ground, noticing a vehicle approaching at speed in my mirrors. Nope dude, wasn't luck at all, it was planned. Luck for is for losers.

Humans are flawed, we are not perfect. We get distracted by our own thoughts and actions, let alone those of the people around us. Do you think you're going to stamp that out? Because until we do the roads will never be a safe place to assume on. And to assume that other easily distracted road users are going to act in a way to ensure someone else's safety is just a quick road to an early grave.

Of course you don't give up, you wouldn't be riding a bike if you did.
Did you say blame? no, you didn't and nor did I mean to suggest you had. That comment was about other posters to this site that seem to have that attitude and an explanation (partial) of where I came at your post from.
As to luck, what if the vehicle had approached at speed between checks? OK I wasn't there and don't know the full story but what if you too had been distracted by something else.
As to your final paragraph, we agree as long as you allow for the bikers also being human, which you seem to.

[pritch]

Why shouldn't standards be set high?

Better than setting them low.

I was wondering where you'd got to

High is fine, unrealistically high isn't.

I guess it's all about perceptions, and comprehension skills, both of which vary hugely hereabout

[Katman]

I was wondering where you'd got to

High is fine, unrealistically high isn't.

I guess it's all about perceptions, and comprehension skills, both of which vary hugely hereabout

Refer post #45.

[onearmedbandit]

Of course you don't give up, you wouldn't be riding a bike if you did.
Did you say blame? no, you didn't and nor did I mean to suggest you had. That comment was about other posters to this site that seem to have that attitude and an explanation (partial) of where I came at your post from.
As to luck, what if the vehicle had approached at speed between checks? OK I wasn't there and don't know the full story but what if you too had been distracted by something else.
As to your final paragraph, we agree as long as you allow for the bikers also being human, which you seem to.

Well you did quote my post directly while throwing the 'blame' word out there.

As for your second statement, you seem to assume I haven't been checking my mirrors before I approach the intersection, nor as I slow down. I'm aware of my surroundings.

Yes of course we are humans (motorcyclists, ie people like you and me inclusive - just so there is no confusion) so we too are imperfect, but that in no way diminishes my personal responsibility, which is what I'm talking about here.

Ultimately is every crash avoidable? Unfortunately not. But are we best to think that every crash is avoidable or to think otherwise? Go back to my sales analogy. I don't sell a car to every person I talk to, but that doesn't stop me from believing otherwise until I've exhausted every possible option. To think otherwise would be detrimental to my sales figures, just like thinking that the same would be detrimental to the years I'll live.

What's the best option when you find yourself running too hot into a corner? Stand the bike up and hit the brakes or lean further into the corner? Most peoples brains will scream hit the brakes, it seems the obvious thing to do to them, to wash off more speed. Yet 9 times out of 10 if you commit yourself to getting around that corner and lean further you'll make it. It's the same thing. You see that car pull out in front of you in what seems to be impossible distance to safely stop, yet most people will try to do exactly that, and fail. Yet if you had believed you could find an escape path there is a good chance you will.

[Katman]

I was wondering where you'd got to

High is fine, unrealistically high isn't.

I guess it's all about perceptions, and comprehension skills, both of which vary hugely hereabout

If you believe I have ever said that every single accident is avoidable then I'd love to see you point me to the post.

Having said that, I believe that (at the barest minimum) 90% of motorcycle accidents could be avoided through some action by the motorcyclist.

And to anyone that tries using the "I suppose the motorcyclist could have stayed at home that day" argument - if that's the best you can come up with, perhaps it's time to hang up your helmet.

Too much effort is spent focusing on the accidents that "couldn't be avoided" at the expense of wondering how they might have been avoided.

[willytheekid]

.

.

This is about each others safety after all.

Checking your mirrors at a stand still IS taught at advanced rider training, the amount of riders that have been killed or left paralyzed due to some ignorant fuck tard rear ending them is absolutely mind blowing!
Check your mirrors when ever possible!...its that simple guys...it could save your life oneday, cos I certainly DON'T want to read another biker down thread that involves any of my KB mates

There Panel damage...could be our life! (I keep saying this for a reason...WE are the ones who need to dodge, to see them coming and survive!!)

[superman]

Checking your mirrors at a stand still IS taught at advanced rider training, the amount of riders that have been killed or left paralyzed due to some ignorant fuck tard rear ending them is absolutely mind blowing!
Check your mirrors when ever possible!...its that simple guys...it could save your life oneday, cos I certainly DON'T want to read another

Intersections are terrifying when any vehicle comes up quickly behind you, always eye up a potential exit strategy! I like aiming for pedestrian islands so as to avoid as much of the traffic as possible.

Usually flashing the brakes on and off is enough to slow them down... usually...

[pritch]

Having said that, I believe that (at the barest minimum) 90% of motorcycle accidents could be avoided through some action by the motorcyclist.

From my perspective it's about making an intelligent assessment of the risks and then managing the risks.
Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes, there's brain fade, and sometimes, whether we like it or not, shit does just happen.
So after allowing for all that, 90% still seems unreasonably high.

Must go, life intrudes.

[Grubber]

From my perspective it's about making an intelligent assessment of the risks and then managing the risks.
Nobody's perfect, we all make mistakes, there's brain fade, and sometimes, whether we like it or not, shit does just happen.
So after allowing for all that, 90% still seems unreasonably high.

Must go, life intrudes.

Yea i think 90% is a tad on the high side to be honest.
We would all like to try to achieve this though.

[Katman]

Yea i think 90% is a tad on the high side to be honest.
We would all like to try to achieve this though.

I think if you include all the motorcycle accidents that occur through the rider out-riding their ability, out-riding the conditions, riding with their head in lah-lah land, or having inadequate situational awareness, the figure would well exceed 90%.

[scumdog]

I was riding into work last winter....main north highway, when it started to hail...and I mean REALLY hail!
I watched a car several vehicles ahead....STOP!...on the highway!(So he could look at hail??..fuck knows?)

I immediately remembered the rather large 4x4/ute that I had passed a few minutes earlier...checked my mirrors and saw the headlights coming...fast...to bloody fast!!
I gassed it and pulled off the road completely!....and sure enough, the 4x4/ute locked up and power slid into the rear of the car that was INFRONT of me!

...that could have been me gone!, crushed between the two.

ALWAYS CHECK YOUR MIRRORS & ALWAYS HAVE AN ESCAPE ROUTE!...learnt this at advanced rider training (and its already saved my arsed more than once!)

Yup, always remember what's behind you - sure check the mirror(s) regularly but knowing what is behind you before you even check the mirrors can give you that critical (at times) edge.

[onearmedbandit]

Why not aim for 100%?

I'm out on a ride now, I know that despite everything I do there is a chance I won't make it home. However I still believe I'm 100% responsible for my safety, if I was to attribute any less who would I give it to? Other road users? No thanks. With that mentality, for me at least, it puts me into the mindset that I can avoid every accident. I'm not perfect, I've had my share of offs, one leaving me with a paralysed arm, and those failures I can wholly attribute to my actions, but that hasn't changed my way of thinking. Might not work for others, but works for me.

Enough from me now, I've got a ride to finish.

[willytheekid]

Yup, always remember what's behind you - sure check the mirror(s) regularly but knowing what is behind you before you even check the mirrors can give you that critical (at times) edge.

Amen! (Totally agree)

You know the sickest part of that "incident" scummie...the stupid bastard that stopped to "look at the pritty hail"...just drove off!...he was completely oblivious to the carnage he had caused behind him. (Or simply didn't care?)
...Aint that just the kicker!



30yrs Riding in Febuary! ....and I firmly believe its all thanks to advanced Rider training that I have lastest this long...and I hope to last another 30!
(Ive gotta go on a refresher course)

Ride safe mate...will eat a few burnt sausages for ya on the 5th @ BBQ, and will post some pic's of the all the fun (enjoy the trip down to rally!...pics!)

[Grubber]

I think if you include all the motorcycle accidents that occur through the rider out-riding their ability, out-riding the conditions, riding with their head in lah-lah land, or having inadequate situational awareness, the figure would well exceed 90%.

All of these scenarios are conducive to frequent accidents but this is not ALL motorcycle accidents. I still don't think it would be 90% of ALL.
Anyone who rides in the quoted manner is limiting their ability to stay upright.

[Katman]

All of these scenarios are conducive to frequent accidents but this is not ALL motorcycle accidents. I still don't think it would be 90% of ALL.
Anyone who rides in the quoted manner is limiting their ability to stay upright.

Come on man, you're just trying to excuse poor form.

Cars don't suddenly pull U-turns without having given away clues beforehand, escape routes should have automatically been worked out in your head before a car even has a chance to fail to give way and anyone that proclaims "there was nothing I could have done" is just being lazy (or needs serious training).