How hard can it be?

[James Deuce]

I think track days and track based courses for riders who are predominantly road riders are largely a waste of money. If I was going to get back into racing big time I'd spend a year getting the CSS courses under my belt before I applied for my race licence. There needs to be courses at that level of detail and difficulty for road riders with a focus on dealing with the hazards as well as improving and understanding motorcycle control and dynamics.

I've never understood the argument that it's better to do these courses on the track where there's no hazards. That is the same logic that has produced an education environment where no one fails, they just don't succeed to the same level as the people doing better than them. Just like life, motorcycling tends to be pass or fail, with disastrous consequences for getting it wrong. Track based schools like CSS teach people how to ride better but not how to apply their increase in available attention budget to managing risk in a realistic fashion. They can say that they have provided you with the scope to make yourself safer on the road. I seldom see people apply themselves in that way after the course.

[Brian407]

Down to name calling now are we???
So how much time would you like me to spend figuring out what they are THINKING before i run into something else.
Don't you think (maybe you don't)that it would be quite time consuming focussing on what you THINK the other road user may be THINKING.

Ummmm...... It's called ANTICIPATING what another road user may be going to do, and whether or not it's going to affect you. It takes about a nano second and is something done by most apt road users many times a day. Are you seriuosly suggesting that it's a waste of time?? and that you DONT do it???

[Katman]

Ummmm...... It's called ANTICIPATING what another road user may be going to do, and whether or not it's going to affect you. It takes about a nano second and is something done by most apt road users many times a day. Are you seriuosly suggesting that it's a waste of time?? and that you DONT do it???

Come on man, he doesn't have to.

He's done the Californian Superbike School.

[Ocean1]

I've never understood the argument that it's better to do these courses on the track where there's no hazards. That is the same logic that has produced an education environment where no one fails, they just don't succeed to the same level as the people doing better than them. Just like life, motorcycling tends to be pass or fail, with disastrous consequences for getting it wrong.

Except in the dirt. The road's no place to learn how to ride either.

Have you seen that wee playground street setup down in the duckpond park? I'd love to see a road riding course set up like that, but layed out over several acres of dirt track. Keep it to 1st and second gear, work out some random hazards and video the vict... er, course participants for later review.

I'm sure I can work up a mobile gorse bush to leap out and administer lessons to the unobservant of a suitable degree of pain. They taught me all I know...

[ducatilover]

I have his first book (Twist of the wrist) and it truly is the bikers bible. I also have the dvd of Twist of the wrist II. They are absolutely brilliant and i fully reccomend them. If you dont have a copy, go get one. I promise you it will be the best money you have ever spent!

I have both, great books.
But, they are very race orientated and not completely usable for road riding. Although if you apply everything it makes such an amzing difference to your riding!
I used to be shit, now I'm just crap

[Sliver]

Giant walls of text. Brain...melting....

But very good points.

Having said that, it is motorcyclists I am most wary of. They are vastly more unpredictable than most other road users whose behaviour can usually be predicted with a fair amount of certainty, once one has gained some "experience".

+1, but was worth the read.

[The Singing Chef]

I think track days and track based courses for riders who are predominantly road riders are largely a waste of money. If I was going to get back into racing big time I'd spend a year getting the CSS courses under my belt before I applied for my race licence. There needs to be courses at that level of detail and difficulty for road riders with a focus on dealing with the hazards as well as improving and understanding motorcycle control and dynamics.

I've never understood the argument that it's better to do these courses on the track where there's no hazards. That is the same logic that has produced an education environment where no one fails, they just don't succeed to the same level as the people doing better than them. Just like life, motorcycling tends to be pass or fail, with disastrous consequences for getting it wrong. Track based schools like CSS teach people how to ride better but not how to apply their increase in available attention budget to managing risk in a realistic fashion. They can say that they have provided you with the scope to make yourself safer on the road. I seldom see people apply themselves in that way after the course.

I disagree, there are things that you can learn from the track, especially if you are a newer rider. Such as, learning how to settle the bike into a corner, body positioning to make the most of your bike, what your bike can actually accomplish and how you can apply that when you have an "Oh shit" moment mid corner.

There have been things that I have learnt about my bike, and my 650 that has helped in terms of how I take my bike through corners and riding normally, from weighting the pegs properly and setting up touch points on my bike so that the bike is as stable as it can be and still has the ability to make it's own adjustments when it needs too.

I now take corners safer and when I do overcook it a little bit, I am in a calm frame of mind and am able to get the bike to slow down safely and make the corner. Mind you these are the ART days and not the normal track days where there are no instructors there.

Hazards are a different story and can be learnt in other ways such as in a carpark, like controlling rear wheel skids and maximising your vision, controlling your braking etc...

I believe it has a place for you to learn another set of skills, and any skill is a good skill.

[Katman]

Jim never said that track days have nothing to offer to road riding.

However, the skills learned at a trackday are generally best transfered to the road as a means used to get you out of trouble.

Unfortunately, many motorcyclists seem to use the skills they learn at trackdays to get themselves into trouble on the road.

[The Singing Chef]

Jim never said that track days have nothing to offer to road riding.

However, the skills learned at a trackday are generally best transfered to the road as a means used to get you out of trouble.

Unfortunately, many motorcyclists seem to use the skills they learn at trackdays to get themselves into trouble on the road.

Oops, I skimmed over it, bit tired which never helps.

Yea I can understand how they could use the skills to get themselves into trouble on the road which is unfortunate, but I have seen positive effects predominately, for example. Westy_mate, he finally came along to the ART day and learnt how to actually turn a bloody corner and I also gave him a "Total control" book to read to help his riding out and he has now improved in leaps and bounds which is comforting to see, considering I don't want to be going to a funeral any time soon.