Horsepower ratings?

[Crasherfromwayback]

, I love 2 strokes as much as the next guy, but around a mx track the fourstrokes are faster, deal with it,

And I love 'em even more. But I'm with you there. Don't see too many smokers lining up for GP's these days. And I'm sure they're still allowed ain't they?

[scott411]

yep they are still allowed, a US guy qualified for a national on a YZ250 last year at washougal, it blew up in the first moto,

the CC gap should be changed IMO, but you would not see any 2 strokes in teh big class, but a few in the 250 class, i still think a full factory 250F would win tho

[eelracing]

Think this might be a bit of you mate...

Hell yeah!

but around a mx track the fourstrokes are faster, deal with it,

Fuck off they are,stop hiding your head in the sand and wake up.The day a privateer can turn up and race a world championship on a two stroke cc for cc with a four strokes will be the day I will be over it.

Until then and factory involvement ceases to write the rulebooks of so called championships I aint buying it.

[scott411]

Hell yeah!





Fuck off they are,stop hiding your head in the sand and wake up.The day a privateer can turn up and race a world championship on a two stroke cc for cc with a four strokes will be the day I will be over it.

Until then and factory involvement ceases to write the rulebooks of so called championships I aint buying it.

IN NZ, since the 250 class has been all in (07), there has only been one champ on a 2 stroke, and thats DK, because everyone else is faster for 20 minutes on a 250F, 95% of people are faster on a 250f than a 250 2t, you have to be twice as fit to ride a 2t, DK does not win because he has more hp, he wins cause hes fitter and more focused than anyone else in the class, everyone races very stock bikes in NZ, with a few bolt on mods,

when was the last time you raced a natioanl level MX?

you want to know why the japenese stopped making and selling 2 strokes, because they 4 strokes out sold them 10 to 1, and they still do

[scott411]

and, teh last 2 stroke to win the 500 GP class was only 360cc (shayne king 1996) big bore 2 strokes do not make the power spread you need to be fast around a modern motocross track,

[Jay GTI]

DK does not win because he has more hp, he wins cause hes fitter and more focused than anyone else in the class, everyone races very stock bikes in NZ, with a few bolt on mods,

Yep even DK has freely admitted that he would be faster on a 4T on a lot of the tracks, but conceeds that occasionally, when the conditions are right, the 2T is better. But he has said he wins because he has race experience and stamina well beyond most of his competition and that is what gives him the advantage, not the bike.

[eelracing]

IN NZ, since the 250 class has been all in (07), there has only been one champ on a 2 stroke, and thats DK, because everyone else is faster for 20 minutes on a 250F, 95% of people are faster on a 250f than a 250 2t, you have to be twice as fit to ride a 2t, DK does not win because he has more hp, he wins cause hes fitter and more focused than anyone else in the class, everyone races very stock bikes in NZ, with a few bolt on mods,

Thanks for that

you want to know why the japenese stopped making and selling 2 strokes, because they 4 strokes out sold them 10 to 1, and they still do

No the japs stopped developing them...hell Honda Kawasaki and Suzuki don't even sell them anymore...but you already know that.

and, teh last 2 stroke to win the 500 GP class was only 360cc (shayne king 1996) big bore 2 strokes do not make the power spread you need to be fast around a modern motocross track,

And if I remember correctly the 500 class was not even considered the "Blue Riband" class by then.In fact the 250 class was the more important one at that time.And please remember 4 strokes were'nt banned then either.

[jasonu]

This guy is pretty handy on his YZ490 too!! It's well worth watching the clip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmb2k...eature=related

Real men, nice clip.

[Jay GTI]

No the japs stopped developing them...hell Honda Kawasaki and Suzuki don't even sell them anymore...but you already know that.

The "why" can be debated until the moon crashes into the sun, I've heard all sorts of reasons, from manufacturers worried that world-wide emmissions regulations would kill the sport and 4Ts were seen as more green, to it being a conspiracy by Honda, who successfully lobbied the various MX governing bodies for the 125 2T/250 4T and 250 2T/450 4T class regs because they didn't own any of the important 2T patents and knew the odds were stacked against the smokers. Add that to the fact marketing departments of all the big manufacturers were suddenly screaming at you that your 2T was seriously uncool and the fast guys all rode 4Ts...

Regardless, there is no one reason for the 2T demise from top level MX.

[F5 Dave]

The real reason, that despite thier inbreed culture to favour the 4T over the 2T, Honda could & have built some of the best 2T engines.

Unfortunately they are seriously Evil.

and Ghey, obviously.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think anyone that's owned and loved two strokes would like to see them survive and make a comeback. It'd just be unwise to hold your breath.

[Crasherfromwayback]

And if I remember correctly the 500 class was not even considered the "Blue Riband" class by then.In fact the 250 class was the more important one at that time.And please remember 4 strokes were'nt banned then either.

Just like you need to remember that a guy can rock up to a open class GP on his 500 smoker if he wants. But he won't win.

[Jay GTI]

I think anyone that's owned and loved two strokes would like to see them survive and make a comeback. It'd just be unwise to hold your breath.

I have to say that even though I'm a 4T convert, there is a small part of my brain (the part that makes me do naughty things) that misses the slightly unhinged way my old RM made power. More hassle than it was worth for 99% of the time, cos I can't ride very well, but just every now and then I'd snap open the throttle and... well it was enough that I kept the bike for 2 1/2 years, despite it putting me in hospital twice.

But no, I won't be holding my breath. My breast, yes, but my breath no... (damn man-boobs, I need to stop eating so much).

[eelracing]

Add that to the fact marketing departments of all the big manufacturers were suddenly screaming at you that your 2T was seriously uncool and the fast guys all rode 4Ts...

Marketing and snake oil mean the same thing in my book.Those self same company drones just wan't to sell you (expensive)bullshit.

Those fast guys race 4Ts because they are payed to,and winning sells motorcycles.Unfortunately average joe is paying for it in his pocket with having to have the latest and greatest...there's a shit load of overpriced second hand 4ts that nobody want's out there at the mo.

It's just sad that as MX sales go increasingly down the gurgler the two stroke is being ignored by the very companies that they built up.
With todays tech and the equivalent 4T development a smoker would of been value for money,relatively cheap to maintain and still kick a 4Ts arse around a race track.

But theres no resale/parts raping money to be made in that.

[eelracing]

Just like you need to remember that a guy can rock up to a open class GP on his 500 smoker if he wants. But he won't win.

But that's my point Crasher,you can't it has to be a 250 2T.

And despite the fact we hav'nt seen one for nigh over 10 years now an equivalent 2T has a bucketload more torque than a 4T.All it requires is where you want that torque,todays technology can put it where its needed and you don't need cams,valves and related expense to do it.