Road rule change: an unclear area

[BoristheBiter]

And TPTB think that changing this rule will stop accidents.....tui ad anyone?

[bogan]

New rules; red car gives way to somebody coming east to north, or east to south-west (in which case there is possibly enough room to cross the east to north lane, but stop and wait for east to south-west traffic to clear).

But of course knowing that it is new rules (and good practice in general), I'll only take right of way if I'm pretty sure the other guy has/will concede it!

[Berries]

Now - you give way to your right.
But after the change, and because you say there's no room to do the zip-thing, left turning vehicles will have right of way over those turning right.
Essentially, this intersection is simply a T, but with some aspects controlled and some not.

Eh? The imaginary green car is using a slip lane to join the lane the orange car will be in after it turns right, so, because of the continuity lines, should give way to the orange car. Nothing will change under the new rule. If that left turn lane wasn’t there then things would be different. They might have to stick a give way sign up under the tree to show the green car that he has to give way as he effectively joins the main road. In fact, I am surprised they have not done that already.

It is essentially a simple T intersection with one big difference, the left turn lane. Any vehicle coming from this left lane has to give way to vehicles that have already turned right.

[MSTRS:Me]

Well oil beef hooked.
You're right.
Bloody continuity lines...
Had the same issue at 2/5 intersection. the fecking cont lines favour the slow-moving, right turning vehicle over the fast-moving, left turners. I hope they change them after the law change...

[Hopeful Bastard]

Eh? The imaginary green car is using a slip lane to join the lane the orange car will be in after it turns right, so, because of the continuity lines, should give way to the orange car. Nothing will change under the new rule. If that left turn lane wasn’t there then things would be different. They might have to stick a give way sign up under the tree to show the green car that he has to give way as he effectively joins the main road. In fact, I am surprised they have not done that already.

It is essentially a simple T intersection with one big difference, the left turn lane. Any vehicle coming from this left lane has to give way to vehicles that have already turned right.

This person speaketh the truth. Case closed.

[Badjelly]

Here's another one just down the road, much like thousands of other intersections around NZ

Cobham Drive (east-west, 2 lanes each way plus right-turn only lanes at the intersection) meets Evans Bay Parade (north-south, one lane each way).

Consider traffic turning right from Cobham Drive into Evans Bay Parade (only allowed on a green arrow) meeting traffic coming the other way along Cobham Drive and turning left into Evans Bay Parade (free left turn, not controlled by lights).

Same principles, then: It's a single intersection, traffic islands notwithstanding; the lights don't affect priority as long as they're green. So under the new rules right turning traffic will give way to left turning traffic. Simple.

I really don't think this is what people expect. It's not what the drivers in Australia do under similar rules.

I wonder if the roading authorities will be slapping Give Way signs on every free left turn.

[sinned]

I expect that (hopefully) many roadmarkings, signs, light sequences will be changed at the time the new rule is effective.

[Berries]

Same principles, then: It's a single intersection, traffic islands notwithstanding; the lights don't affect priority as long as they're green. So under the new rules right turning traffic will give way to left turning traffic. Simple.

Not that simple. If there was no left turn lane then you'd be correct, the right turner would give way to the left turner. When the right turner turns right though there is no conflicting left turning traffic to give way to. They have already fully completed their right turn prior to meeting the traffic that is turning left. Look at it as a big crossroads and on each approach there is a little offset T intersection. The left turners are coming up to the T, shown by the dotted white lines, therefore must give way to traffic coming from their right. So as before, no change at this intersection with the new rule.

Next.

[bogan]

Not that simple. If there was no left turn lane then you'd be correct, the right turner would give way to the left turner. When the right turner turns right though there is no conflicting left turning traffic to give way to. They have already fully completed their right turn prior to meeting the traffic that is turning left. Look at it as a big crossroads and on each approach there is a little offset T intersection. The left turners are coming up to the T, shown by the dotted white lines, therefore must give way to traffic coming from their right. So as before, no change at this intersection with the new rule.

Next.

What about the north to east turn? no dotted lines there

[steve_t]

What about the north to east turn? no dotted lines there

Isn't there a give way sign there already?

[bogan]

Isn't there a give way sign there already?

Looks like a single line, I thought give ways were two thick white lines.

[steve_t]

Looks like a single line, I thought give ways were two thick white lines.

Not any more. They stopped doing that quite some time I ago.

Edit: Found this:

Note: double yellow lines at Stop signs and double white lines at Give Way signs and traffic signals are in the process of being replaced with single lines. Also, at Give Way intersections, the words 'Give Way' painted on the road will be replaced by a white triangle.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/ro...rsections.html

[Berries]

Isn't there a give way sign there already?

I thought there could be signals on that leg but the footpath doesn't match. I am guessing there is a big white triangle under that car and it is a give way.

Many of these nominally 'free left turns' are put in so that left turners are not held up unnecessarily by the signals. Most of them, at least down my way, do have give way signs. Say the lights are red, you are going to get people going straight through on a green from your right who you have to give way to. The confusion in this thread, by bikers who are supposedly more au fait with the rules than everybody else, suggests that a shit load more of those give way signs are going to have to be erected. It's going to be fun on the 25th, I've already found an intersection I'm going to sit at to have a bloody good laugh.

[swbarnett]

Total non-issue under either rule. The road that the orange car is turning into has two lanes. Neither car has to give way.

[Badjelly]

Look at it as a big crossroads and on each approach there is a little offset T intersection. The left turners are coming up to the T, shown by the dotted white lines, therefore must give way to traffic coming from their right. So as before, no change at this intersection with the new rule.

I'm pretty sure that's how people will look at it. That's how people look at it in Australia, judging by the way they drive. IIRC that's how NZers looked at it pre-1979. I'm not sure that the road rules actually say that though: they're a bit unclear in my opinion, which is why I started this thread.