Okay, how about this?

[Oakie]

Excellent! Let us know when to start rolling thru stop signs so we can have the opportunity to be enrolled.
Actually I saw a group of half a dozen doing some training just up from work yesterday. It was a good look and I'm pretty keen to do a course without going through the angst of getting a ticket first. I think I'm a pretty decent rider but perhaps I suck and i just don't know it.

[MSTRS:Me]

... but then who will feed popo donuts ...

Don't get caught being sub-optimal in your car...those tossers will be paying for all this largesse towards riders.
He didn't mention that, did he?

[CookMySock]

Why not just skip writing infringement notices for trivial fundraising nonsense, and go ahead and take people to the cleaners for stuff in the "stupid and dangerous category"?

I am not against the filth heavily leaning on me or my kids (leave the mrs and the goat out of it) for terrible behaviour on the road, and you and I know exactly what that is, but contrary to the seemingly popular opinion of the fuzz and the legal system - people don't like be to arbitrarily targetted for fundraising and being made subject to someone elses' opinions and subsequent fundr, er, enforcement action.

Insanely, you can personally implement this scheme yourself right away!! No red tape, no forms, no checking it with your CO, NOTHING!! Just walk out the door and do it! How hard could it be???

Benefits for the Officer concerned - Firm positive responsible change for families, harm reduction for victims, warm feeling in tummy, self-respect boost for those not bullied into submission by dogmatic govt.

Other than a huge hole in govt revenue, what could go wrong with that?

[sondela]

Modelled on a scheme in Nelson, I'm thinking of doing something like this.

1. Find a motorcyclist doing something I could potentially write a ticket for. Not hard.
2. Take all his/her details. Make sure I have follow up details.
3. Make sure he/she has all my contact details
4. Supply full contact details for the training that ACC is heavily subsidising.
5. Tell said biker that if he/she does one of the approved courses, no ticket will be issued.
6. Bikers choice…..do the training, paying $50 for the privilege, or get the fine, normally $150

I'm trying to see the arguments against this. If I can cause people to choose training and avoid wasting their dosh on fines, where's the issue?

I guess I'll get all the carping, but let me have it, I'm actually interested in suggestions as to how I could make this better, what things not to do etc.

Have at it Citizens.

Donuts.

Awww..but I've already done all the courses! Does that mean I just get the ticket? Err..presuming I'd do something that potentially would deserve one..

(What does Mrs. Rastus think about you giving your contact details to all them girl bikers???)

[Drew]

How about make every biker do these courses, and be tested on the content, before they are allowed to ride at all?

Vehicle training (or lack there of) is what I think is the biggest contributing factor of our road toll.

Make every one competent, then really fuckin hammer them when they are caught breaking the law!

[cs363]

Brilliant idea and some good constructive posts (am I still on KB?!)

As Drew said it would be nice to see some comprehensive driver/rider training at the licensing stage, but at least this is a step in the right direction.
Bloody shame your bosses (i.e P.Rose etc.) aren't so enlightened.

Like Pussy I had to do an enforced Defensive Driving course in my early years and like him still remember positive stuff from that course, and just like any course on a subject that you are familiar with and no matter how much you think you know, they always either throw up something new or something you'd forgotten so I think everyone could benefit from this to some degree.
In fact having done the Defensive Driving course it inspired me to do an advanced driving school when I lived in Aussie, so I tend to think this sort of thing might inspire self-improvement in others such as it did with me in my youf.

RC for National Road Policing Boss?

[Lelitu]

How about make every biker do these courses, and be tested on the content, before they are allowed to ride at all?

Vehicle training (or lack there of) is what I think is the biggest contributing factor of our road toll.

Make every one competent, then really fuckin hammer them when they are caught breaking the law!

this is an excellent idea, it should apply to cages too.

[Drew]

this is an excellent idea, it should apply to cages too.

Oh hell yes. The system does not currently work very well at all. Everyones dad teaching them how they do it, who learnt from their dad, and so on, and so on. Ever played Chinese whispers?

Capable drivers are safer, and those who don't pass the test, don't get to be in charge of a vehicle. When the re sit their licence after failing, the test should be more thorough to make sure they have actually learnt some shit.

Did you know that it is industry standard for a car having only two tyre fitted, that the new tyres go to the rear of the vehicle? The reason being in part, that although it makes it easier for the car to break traction at the front, it is easier to control than the back stepping out. Fuck that! Anyone who can handle a car knows that you want more grip at the front. It makes the car do everything better.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh hell yes. The system does not currently work very well at all. Everyones dad teaching them how they do it, who learnt from their dad, and so on, and so on. Ever played Chinese whispers?

No that is the problem, everyone's dad doesn't teach them most people on the road get next to no training we'd be alot better off if the parents took the time to train them but they don't too busy or whatever. I'm not sure I know anyone who's had decent training (other than the couple I've trained) most had maybee a week from they're parents max. As for those I know getting "professionally" trained I NEVER want to see that made compulsory they're the other half of the problem.

I will qualify this by saying cage training

[rastuscat]

Why not just skip writing infringement notices for trivial fundraising nonsense, and go ahead and take people to the cleaners for stuff in the "stupid and dangerous category"?

You might be surprised at how many stupid and dangerous things we deal with people for. It's just so easy to whinge about how all we ever do is write infringements.

I am not against the filth heavily leaning on me or my kids (leave the mrs and the goat out of it)

I haven't visited your goat for several months. Your Mrs either.

people don't like be to arbitrarily targetted for fundraising and being made subject to someone elses' opinions

I wondered why I got so pissed off at some of the opinions on here.

Benefits for the Officer concerned - Firm positive responsible change for families, harm reduction for victims, warm feeling in tummy, self-respect boost for those not bullied into submission by dogmatic govt.

Yup, that's why I'm trying to get the scheme up and running in my town.

Other than a huge hole in govt revenue, what could go wrong with that?

Okay don't write a ticket, loss too the gubbermint, $150. Direct the rider to training, cost to the gubbermint maybe $200 ish, depending on the training. Change in riders skills and behaviour post-training leading to a crash avoided any time in the next 20 years? Probably tens of thousands. Sounds like a good investment to me.

[Drew]

No that is the problem, everyone's dad doesn't teach them most people on the road get next to no training we'd be alot better off if the parents took the time to train them but they don't too busy or whatever. I'm not sure I know anyone who's had decent training (other than the couple I've trained) most had maybee a week from they're parents max. As for those I know getting "professionally" trained I NEVER want to see that made compulsory they're the other half of the problem.

I will qualify this by saying cage training

The professional training people recieve, does very little in teaching how to control the car. It is more about road rules and the like.

I want people to learn how to properly handle a car in extreme circumstances. If bikers got some training in this we wouldn't be paying the current ACC levies either. Guy and girls who can't handle a bike when they fuck it ip a little bit, shit themselves and proceed to target fixate and ride stright off the road, make up the majority of kiwi motorcylists I'd bet.

Another quick thought, there are so many people on the road who are ignorant of a lot of laws. Yet they have a licence.

When sitting a licence you are allowed to get two questions wrong. I don't know what the sample questions percentage of the road code are, but I think two incorrect answers probably equates to a possible near 10% of the road rules a person has wrong. Fuck that! (That's my current expleative for showing I'm against something lots by the way).

There are also certain questions in the test that I believe should be flagged for instant failure. Our soon to be done away with rigth hand rule should have been one of these.

[Scuba_Steve]

The professional training people recieve, does very little in teaching how to control the car. It is more about road rules and the like.

I want people to learn how to properly handle a car in extreme circumstances. If bikers got some training in this we wouldn't be paying the current ACC levies either. Guy and girls who can't handle a bike when they fuck it ip a little bit, shit themselves and proceed to target fixate and ride stright off the road, make up the majority of kiwi motorcylists I'd bet.

Yet this is also a problem as the proper training is exactly the sort of training the Govt WON'T support, we as bikers are somewhat lucky in that because the Govt don't care about us the training sponsored by ACC is actually a proper decent training, so we should probably make use of it before the Govt works out what they are sponsoring & stops it. As for cages the Govt will never sponsor proper training as it'll "create boyracers"

Another quick thought, there are so many people on the road who are ignorant of a lot of laws. Yet they have a licence.

When sitting a licence you are allowed to get two questions wrong. I don't know what the sample questions percentage of the road code are, but I think two incorrect answers probably equates to a possible near 10% of the road rules a person has wrong. Fuck that! (That's my current expleative for showing I'm against something lots by the way).

There are also certain questions in the test that I believe should be flagged for instant failure. Our soon to be done away with rigth hand rule should have been one of these.

Yes too many people are too ignorant of the law & the ones put forth in the test centre around laws the Govt make their $$$ from for the most part. Making everyone aware of every law is hard to the point of near impossible especially as they change every year as someone justifies their pay packet. But your right the level of ignorance is unacceptable.
Unfortunately too the NZTA (being as useless as they are) have no interest in teaching people.

[Drew]

Yet this is also a problem as the proper training is exactly the sort of training the Govt WON'T support, we as bikers are somewhat lucky in that because the Govt don't care about us the training sponsored by ACC is actually a proper decent training, so we should probably make use of it before the Govt works out what they are sponsoring & stops it. As for cages the Govt will never sponsor proper training as it'll "create boyracers"

Back it up a bit man, who said the government should pay for it?

Driving a car on public roads is not a right, it's a privilidge. You wanna do it, you pay to learn how!

[Scuba_Steve]

Back it up a bit man, who said the government should pay for it?

Driving a car on public roads is not a right, it's a privilidge. You wanna do it, you pay to learn how!

Sorry I should have said "approve" or "support" rather than "sponsor"

[Drew]

Sorry I should have said "approve" or "support" rather than "sponsor"

Fair enough.

I am bothered about all this now that I've given it some thought. I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly, but the silence of countless families who get together every Christmas without tears of lost family and friends will well and truely drown that out.

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?

As for boy racers, they need to get their collective shit together. Chip in and hire a lawyer. I say that because the government shelled out moonbeams to provide skate parks, because of the huge number of skaters creating public nuisance. Ergo, a prescident (I can't for the life of me think how to spell that correctly) has been set. Make enough of a cunt of yourself, and they will provide an environment in which you can do it legally.