Okay, how about this?

**MSTRS:Me** · 10th February 2012, 09:43

Precedent.

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

**Gremlin** · 10th February 2012, 09:47

Originally Posted by Drew

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?

Car makers have billions invested in getting more people to drive. They influence government policy. Car makers want everyone driving, because it means more cars. I absolutely agree that not everyone should be able to drive (because plenty evidently lack spacial awareness).

**Drew** · 10th February 2012, 09:50

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Precedent.

Thankyou.

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

Yeah, but loads less by volume of road user. It's not possible to do away with road accidents, it's really fuckin easy to substantially reduce them though.

I shake my head every day driving from Petone to Wellington. At the number of skid marks that veer from the middle of a lane, into the barrier. How is it possible to be that retarded? Follow at a safe distance, and apply the brakes smoothly when the shit hits the fan in front of you.

That's just an example, lets not get into debate on exactly what training needs to be given.

**Drew** · 10th February 2012, 09:53

Originally Posted by Gremlin

Car makers have billions invested in getting more people to drive. They influence government policy. Car makers want everyone driving, because it means more cars. I absolutely agree that not everyone should be able to drive (because plenty evidently lack spacial awareness).

The goverment shouldn't give a fuck what the car makers want. If their interest is purely finacial, in the tax they gather from vehicle sales. They would save more than they collect if most road users were safe. Study into this would be very easy to prove, since they already have a specific average cost per accident.

Edit: Most people would still attain a licence, and be buying cars, the few that don't line government pockets by using public transport.

Radical idea, anyone on the unemployment benefit has an instant suspension on their licence untill such time as a job is secured. Not in the name of safety, more social well being.

**Scuba_Steve** · 10th February 2012, 09:59

Originally Posted by Drew

Fair enough.

I am bothered about all this now that I've given it some thought. I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly, but the silence of countless families who get together every Christmas without tears of lost family and friends will well and truely drown that out.

Traffic flows would be so much better, and public transport more heavily employed. Even the fuckin greenies win!

Why is this not done? How can the millions and millions of dollars being spent on groups of people, who are meant to be coming up with road safety systems not come up with this themselves? I'm not the first guy to think of this surely?

Firstly the people that would have to implement it most likely couldn't pass it, they're not about to implement a system they would fail.
Secondly the people in charge have no idea what they are doing and are in no way qualified to be in the positions they hold

**Drew** · 10th February 2012, 10:05

Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve

Firstly the people that would have to implement it most likely couldn't pass it, they're not about to implement a system they would fail.
Secondly the people in charge have no idea what they are doing and are in no way qualified to be in the positions they hold

I hear ya.

So, we need to find trainers for thirty motivated, single minded, un-self serving individuals, who can work well as a team for a common goal. To teach said freaks to drive and ride like Lowndes and Rossi.

Then gather enough supprot for our freaks to get into a postion of authority, from the masses of people who can see the merrit.

Oh forget it, I give up!

**Swoop** · 10th February 2012, 10:12

Originally Posted by Drew

I have racked my rather limited cerebrum for any argument to the implimentation of driver/rider training, and I cannot think of one. There isn't a down side. Those who fail to get a lisence will undoubtedly piss and moan loudly...

Training. One pet peeve.

I posted on the German driver training system recently and it costs a person a lot of time and money to get a licence there. You learn to respect your licence because of the effort put in to get it in the first place. Also, getting good quality training in the first place (not second hand bad habits from your parent) will set up primacy in learning (doing it right from the outset!).

NZ, get your licence in the Cornflakes packet.

**Drew** · 10th February 2012, 10:31

Originally Posted by Swoop

Training. One pet peeve.

I posted on the German driver training system recently and it costs a person a lot of time and money to get a licence there. You learn to respect your licence because of the effort put in to get it in the first place. Also, getting good quality training in the first place (not second hand bad habits from your parent) will set up primacy in learning (doing it right from the outset!).

NZ, get your licence in the Cornflakes packet.

I knew I got the idea from somewhere. It was being told about how hard it is in Germany to get on the roads.

Time and money is a a price I could live with, to better my chances of getting home every night. And there is fuck all good argument anyone could come up with for the negative on that statement I would hope.

Shit, institutions could be started under our current education system for driver schools.

Fuck, tag into the highschool cirriculum at 5th form level. I dunno what they call that now. Two or three hours a week for a year. Oh yeah, arsehole that sliding scale shit though. It needs to be pass or fail. Kids would soon take it seriously if their parents wouldn't pay the cost because they don't see it as a good investment and made them pony up for it themselves.

**Swoop** · 10th February 2012, 10:48

Originally Posted by Drew

institutions could be started under our current education system for driver schools.

I regularly wonder about the "professional" driving schools here.
I wish I had a dollar for each time I see driving school cars sitting in the middle lane of the motorway. Fooken unbelievable.
"Keep left unless passing" means nothing to these boofheads who are doing the teaching.

**Drew** · 10th February 2012, 14:39

Originally Posted by Swoop

I regularly wonder about the "professional" driving schools here.
I wish I had a dollar for each time I see driving school cars sitting in the middle lane of the motorway. Fooken unbelievable.
"Keep left unless passing" means nothing to these boofheads who are doing the teaching.

If there are three lanes of motorway, I advocate sitting in the middle lane unless passing, or preparing to take an exit. The far left lane should be for entering and exiting the motorway.

Just my way of thinking, as this lessens the disruption to traffic flow caused by people trying to merge into a chocka block lane in a short distance.

Properly trained drivers however, would all be taught the same things and therefore any system will work better than the caos we have now.

**James Deuce** · 10th February 2012, 14:56

Originally Posted by Drew

If there are three lanes of motorway, I advocate sitting in the middle lane unless passing, or preparing to take an exit. The far left lane should be for entering and exiting the motorway.

You get pinged for that in the UK. As you should.

The speed limit there is 70 mph. The left lane moves at 70 mph. The middle at 80. The right-hand lane 90-100mph. Depending on whether or not there are point to point measuring speed cameras and then the traffic slows down to 60 mph.

I never saw any merging, entering or exiting issues. You just put your indicator on and someone makes a hole in traffic for you. Overtaking on the left is equated with being a pedophile in the UK.

The standard of driving is hugely better than here, despite what some cynical poms say.

**Katman** · 10th February 2012, 15:01

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

True. I believe an attitude shift is the definitive answer. It encompasses the idea that we always have something more to learn, it encompasses the idea of sharing the road equally, it encompasses the idea of aiming to not be an unnescessary burden on society, it encompasses personal responsibility, blah, blah, blah.... (The list goes on).

How we achieve it is anyone's guess.

**blue rider** · 10th February 2012, 15:10

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Precedent.

Better training has to be good, but it isn't the definitive answer. Germany still has road deaths.

yes we do, and pretty much for the same reason NZ has raod death.....we also have a saying

stupidity never protected anyone from harm

i have stated before that while i find the idea admirable, i prefer a different approach.

Mandatory minimum training before licenses are being handed out will prevent some death and some damage, not all but some.

training has never harmed anyone .....