Just bought my first bike, anybody regularly riding over Port Hills? (Mushu)

[Mushu]

Or were you just upset I said I would never ride a H-D, don't misunderstand and think I don't like Harleys, they are impressive in pretty much every way definatly look and sound better than pretty much anything from japan or italy but as I said before I love corners and the way it goes is far more important for me

no not upset i was suprised that
a- you have an opinon on them and you a have just got your 1st bike and

b- never ridden 1

As far as I'm concerned H-Ds are the V8s of the bike world, developed in the same environment (America) to do the same job: cover long, mostly straight roads in comfort. And near as I can see they do the job very well just like most V8s do.
But I'm not interested in all that torque, the big wide seat and high bars would be nice and comfortable but if I want a nice soft seat I got 2 cages to choose from.

Well, your preferance is obvious.
You are correct, I don't have much riding experience, and I have never ridden one but long before I ever got a car license I knew what kind of cars I liked (my preferance has nothing to do with what they look like its all down to the way they perform) and if I wanted lazy power and a lounge chair to sit on, then I would buy a car that fits that bill so I can have a heater and stereo and coffee too (haven't been able to find a cup holder on the ninja yet). But given that I enjoy high revs, cornering g loads and the sensation of pushing a vehicle hard while keeping everything smooth, I think jap bikes are the way for me (or italian). You probably knew long before you got on your harley that you would love it the same as I did my ninja (didn't even test ride it) and also you probably drive a Falcon/Commodore and if you don't you want 1 (Or something similar). Nothing wrong with it, just that 'everyones different' thing. Alot of my friends and family give me shit about the 'rice burners' I drive, my response is always the same - "Follow me to Summit Rd and say that", nomatter what you think of your Harley there things that other bikes do better.

Plus it would be kind of backward to own the lightest, highest revving cars I can find and then buy a big, very heavy, cruiser of a bike, it really wouldn't make sense. Also I hate chrome which kind of rules out pretty much every Harley I've ever seen. Then there is the money, my uncle has a H-D (don't know what it is, don't care. But I do know what my auntie rides: Ducati Monster) and it cost him something like 30k, for that money I could buy a Hayabusa and a trail bike and still have cash left for new gear.

But as you pointed out, I have never ridden one and I will be open to the experience later. If I ride one and enjoy it enough, I will quite happily change my tune and go buy 1 (it would make a lot more sense if I lived in a warmer climate where I can be happy riding everyday - it's too bloody cold here)

[Mushu]

LOL,
You call that a fast corniering car
R O T F L M H O
I had a 1972 P510H SSS that use eat the best of those toymotas,
without the need to go into the dogleg fifth gear,
Now if you dont know what a 72P510H SSS is,
Then slow down on that bike, because you have never been around a corner very fast at all.

Um... Okay. I really hope you're not serious.

[ducatilover]

LOL,
You call that a fast corniering car
R O T F L M H O
I had a 1972 P510H SSS that use eat the best of those toymotas,
without the need to go into the dogleg fifth gear,
Now if you dont know what a 72P510H SSS is,
Then slow down on that bike, because you have never been around a corner very fast at all.

You made a funny!

[ducatilover]

As far as I'm concerned H-Ds are the V8s of the bike world, developed in the same environment (America) to do the same job: cover long, mostly straight roads in comfort. And near as I can see they do the job very well just like most V8s do.
But I'm not interested in all that torque, the big wide seat and high bars would be nice and comfortable but if I want a nice soft seat I got 2 cages to choose from.

I prefer not to liken H-Ds to V8s, because people seem to think of 510ci Caddys and 308 Holdens when you say V8...when in fact, the configuration means nothing.
I would call them "low tech engines" and that makes it a bit clearer... Just like the 250 Ninja is the Mazda 323 SP20 of the bike world.
You have to remember, way back-when, the fastest cars the normal chap could afford was a '69 SS 302 Comaro etc, now it's moved toward the 4wd-turbo stuff (which is fair enough, a well sorted Evo/STi will run with anything on a twisty road)


I don't like Hardleys in general.

[Mushu]

I prefer not to liken H-Ds to V8s, because people seem to think of 510ci Caddys and 308 Holdens when you say V8...when in fact, the configuration means nothing.
I would call them "low tech engines" and that makes it a bit clearer... Just like the 250 Ninja is the Mazda 323 SP20 of the bike world.
You have to remember, way back-when, the fastest cars the normal chap could afford was a '69 SS 302 Comaro etc, now it's moved toward the 4wd-turbo stuff (which is fair enough, a well sorted Evo/STi will run with anything on a twisty road)


I don't like Hardleys in general.

When I refer to V8s I'm speaking about the majority of the 'hero' cars from Australian and American manufaturers and not specificly anything with a V8 engine. Obviously there are plenty of V8 vehicles around that don't conform to my 'idea' of V8s (Arial Atom) and some that do conform to my 'idea' but don't run a V8 (Dodge Viper and all the V6 and L6 versions of the American/Australian Cars).

As I stated when explaining why I don't want a Harley, my idea of a V8 has more to do with the environment they were designed for, I like corners, so why would I drive a vehicle that was designed with no regard to handeling. I see my cars + bike as precision instruments where as a V8 is more brute strength.

But I have to say I'm a sucker for the technology, there is things they were doing in japan that the American guys are just in the last few years starting to apply on their vehicles (have Holden thrown out the push-rods on their v8s yet) of course now they are starting to catch up to the heyday of Japans motor industry (or what I consider the heyday - about 1985 to about 1995)

[Mushu]

Cant get up the hill tonight unfortunately!
Im not very mechanical minded im just learning all the basic servicing stuff at the moment so when you say FI im assuming that means Fuel injected? If so thats sick man.

Yep Fuel Injected, probably not too good of an idea, I'm still amazed by how much I paid hopefully LAMS doesn't hurt the resale too much thinking about organising a ride for tomorrow, will post a map of the route in the WNR thread soon.

[Mushu]

This is the route I take when I ride the hills (since the earthquakes) and this is the route I intend to post in the WNR a fair bit shorter then the last (and only) WNR I went on, infact we covered half this course on the way out to little river.

If I'm not on my own, Its probably a good idea to stop somewhere (possibly the Wheatsheaf, I've never been inside).

http://quikmaps.com/show/201199

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130304376

[FJRider]

But as you pointed out, I have never ridden one and I will be open to the experience later. If I ride one and enjoy it enough, I will quite happily change my tune and go buy 1 (it would make a lot more sense if I lived in a warmer climate where I can be happy riding everyday - it's too bloody cold here)

You make a lot of comments and claims ... based entirely on your assumptions. Assumptions being the mother of all fuck-ups ...

Without the real world experience of the vehicles you mention ... nobody should actually take your comments seriously, and I'm supprised there has been so little derision of your posts.

Your "if I lived in a warmer climate" comment indicates you dont have the gear, or inclination/attitude to ride in cooler weather. Your loss, not ours ... one less inexperienced dick-head know-it-all on the roads.

[Mushu]

You make a lot of comments and claims ... based entirely on your assumptions. Assumptions being the mother of all fuck-ups ...

Without the real world experience of the vehicles you mention ... nobody should actually take your comments seriously, and I'm supprised there has been so little derision of your posts.

Your "if I lived in a warmer climate" comment indicates you dont have the gear, or inclination/attitude to ride in cooler weather. Your loss, not ours ... one less inexperienced dick-head know-it-all on the roads.

what did I assume? I have preferances, as I'm sure, do you.
The only vehicle I mention that I don't have experience of is the H-D (and in a later post I mention an Ariel Atom and Dodge Viper) and the only part of my post you quoted was the part that says that I am still open to ride one and will eat my words if I am wrong.
Yes my warmer climate comment does point out that I could do with some more gear but I'd be gone either way if I wasn't stuck here for family reasons and I'm always completly covered in a mixture of denim, kevlar, leather and whatever other textiles Dririder and Shift use, but nomatter what I have if its 5 degrees or less I'm jumping in the cage and cranking the heater

The whole point of my post was to say I knew I didn't want a Falcon/Commodore/Chev etc etc years before I ever drove anything for whatever reason I was able to figure that out and near as I can tell most of my reasons still apply to these bikes

oh, and by the way, you are right, you shouldn't take me seriously - this is the internet, you shouldn't take anyone seriously (I swear I am Valintino Rossi) but thanks for your *constructive* comments

And before you lower yourself to calling me names *too late* read the thread, I'm on here trying to pick up as many skills as I can from those who know better than me (which quite probably isn't you - gods gift to motorcycling, I'm sure)

[ducatilover]

But I have to say I'm a sucker for the technology, there is things they were doing in japan that the American guys are just in the last few years starting to apply on their vehicles (have Holden thrown out the push-rods on their v8s yet) of course now they are starting to catch up to the heyday of Japans motor industry (or what I consider the heyday - about 1985 to about 1995)

What technology does a 20v offer that's in any way, shape, or form impressive?
If it was technology, then a B/H series Honda would win.
Performance wise too.
I can't think of any modern technology on the 20V, to my knowledge, the twin cam engine was first produced by a froggy outfit called Premier.

I do see what you mean RE the V8's, but I just think it's like saying all 4 cylinders are shit. Just a bit...broad.
Lumbering, low revving heavy cars designed to be comfortable, smooth and you'd be surprised how fast.
I reckon I could pedal a late model HSV faster over any road an AE101 levin goes, don't knock it 'till you've driven 'em.

What are your views on "Euros"?

[Mushu]

What technology does a 20v offer that's in any way, shape, or form impressive?
If it was technology, then a B/H series Honda would win.
Performance wise too.
I can't think of any modern technology on the 20V, to my knowledge, the twin cam engine was first produced by a froggy outfit called Premier.

I do see what you mean RE the V8's, but I just think it's like saying all 4 cylinders are shit. Just a bit...broad.
Lumbering, low revving heavy cars designed to be comfortable, smooth and you'd be surprised how fast.
I reckon I could pedal a late model HSV faster over any road an AE101 levin goes, don't knock it 'till you've driven 'em.

What are your views on "Euros"?

I agree Hondas engines are techologicly better than Toyotas but they don't have the same reliability and in most cases parts for a decent Honda would be more expensive than for a similar Toyota (Except where superstrut is involved)
Theres a lot more technology in the 20v (5 valves per cyl, VVTi, electronic ignition, Quad Throttles) than there would be in a similar year model Ford (XE/XF) or Holden (VP) but if I were able to afford a brand new car, my tune may be quite different.

I know it was broad, I couldn't think of any other way to describe the group of cars I was talking about.
A lot of my family and friends drive or drove V8s and I have driven all kinds and I can see the attraction, especially on long trips (which can be hell in my cars)
As far as which is faster, its a case of where you are.
You're right a late model HSV could probably beat my AE101 in any conditions, but I have the same motor in my MR2 and I'm pretty sure if I raced it downhill on twisty roads I would have a massive advantage.

My opinion on Euros is that they are a mixed bag, you really can't lump them together. For the most part they don't seem to last as long as their Japanese equivilent and seem to be far more expensive on average.
There have been plenty of awesome cars come out of Europe but in NZ, there don't seem to be that many 'desireable' ones around depending on your price range and your opinion (Alot of people love the BMW E36, I hate them - they are an electrical nightmare, lol).
I have never owned a european car but almost everyone I know that have owned older euro cars (ie. those that someone like me can afford) have had problems (mostly electrical problems) and in most cases the parts are very expensive.
So I wouldn't buy a euro car unless either I had extra money and bought 1 as a project/weekend car or if I somehow find myself in a much better financial position and buy a brand new car I could go european.

[ducatilover]

I agree Hondas engines are techologicly better than Toyotas but they don't have the same reliability and in most cases parts for a decent Honda would be more expensive than for a similar Toyota (Except where superstrut is involved)
Theres a lot more technology in the 20v (5 valves per cyl, VVTi, electronic ignition, Quad Throttles) than there would be in a similar year model Ford (XE/XF) or Holden (VP) but if I were able to afford a brand new car, my tune may be quite different.

I know it was broad, I couldn't think of any other way to describe the group of cars I was talking about.
A lot of my family and friends drive or drove V8s and I have driven all kinds and I can see the attraction, especially on long trips (which can be hell in my cars)
As far as which is faster, its a case of where you are.
You're right a late model HSV could probably beat my AE101 in any conditions, but I have the same motor in my MR2 and I'm pretty sure if I raced it downhill on twisty roads I would have a massive advantage.

My opinion on Euros is that they are a mixed bag, you really can't lump them together. For the most part they don't seem to last as long as their Japanese equivilent and seem to be far more expensive on average.
There have been plenty of awesome cars come out of Europe but in NZ, there don't seem to be that many 'desireable' ones around depending on your price range and your opinion (Alot of people love the BMW E36, I hate them - they are an electrical nightmare, lol).
I have never owned a european car but almost everyone I know that have owned older euro cars (ie. those that someone like me can afford) have had problems (mostly electrical problems) and in most cases the parts are very expensive.
So I wouldn't buy a euro car unless either I had extra money and bought 1 as a project/weekend car or if I somehow find myself in a much better financial position and buy a brand new car I could go european.

The Tech in a 20V wasn't that "new" though when it came out, the only thing it had going for it was the revs it could pull. (The ED falcon of that era had MPI/EFI, as did the VP, but, I bloody hate them anyway they're shit cars)

I like your arguments but I have to disagree on the E36 being an electrical nightmare, we've had 3x 325i, 2x 320i and 1x 328i and the only problems were:
The left hand rear brake light clip/holder on the first 325i and a brake light switch in my 320i coupe (full Msport options one that wee one)
The only other issue was one of the heater pipes split on my Coupe, that cost $20 for a brand new pipe and 30min of my time.
Over 300,000km covered in E36's in our family.
But, the 4 cyl ones? God they are terrible cars.

I'll argue that E36 parts are cheaper than the majority of Jap car parts, I've worked on countless E36s and servicing is cheap, every wear and tear part is cheaper than the same part on a 5SFE engined Camry.

I'm biased though

[Mushu]

The Tech in a 20V wasn't that "new" though when it came out, the only thing it had going for it was the revs it could pull. (The ED falcon of that era had MPI/EFI, as did the VP, but, I bloody hate them anyway they're shit cars)

I like your arguments but I have to disagree on the E36 being an electrical nightmare, we've had 3x 325i, 2x 320i and 1x 328i and the only problems were:
The left hand rear brake light clip/holder on the first 325i and a brake light switch in my 320i coupe (full Msport options one that wee one)
The only other issue was one of the heater pipes split on my Coupe, that cost $20 for a brand new pipe and 30min of my time.
Over 300,000km covered in E36's in our family.
But, the 4 cyl ones? God they are terrible cars.

I'll argue that E36 parts are cheaper than the majority of Jap car parts, I've worked on countless E36s and servicing is cheap, every wear and tear part is cheaper than the same part on a 5SFE engined Camry.

I'm biased though

I disagree, the tech may not have been new but its pretty exotic. The 5 valve head and individual throttles are extremely rare and variable cam timing wasn't as common in the early 90s, plus the block design is (rumoured to have been) taken directly from the Cosworth BDA engine and the head, inlet manifold and airbox were designed by Yamaha (I have a Silvertop, they did a far better job of this on the Blacktop from the AE111.) It would be extremely hard to find another 1600 that makes as much power (except for the Honda B16R). Although european manufacturers are the first to come up with most of this tech (EFI was invented in Germany, Pugeot Used 5 Valve Heads in the 1920s and Cosworth is English) the japanese seem to always be the first to employ new technology and make it reliable enough to be used for decades (The newsest car I ever had was 16 years old at the time)


You mentioned bias, I am definatly biased toward the 4AGE. After alot of fun in a couple of old 16v corollas when I was younger and watching Initial D I was hooked. (Wish I could get my hands on a Formula Atlantic 4AGE) All I wanted was a 20v AE86, but because of the price of a GT-Apex AE86 I went with the front wheel drive AE101 (GT-Apex) as my daily driver and then, when I had some extra cash, bought the AW11 as a toy.

And I am Biased against the E36 because of two I worked on quite close to gether a few years ago, I'd wound up chasing electrical faults in them for days, 1 was a 4 cyl with shorting problems (in several places) and the other was was a 6cyl convertable and had fuelling problems, neither one was easy to diagnose (or work on) and the second one required a few bits that I had recently replaced on my RA65 Celica (Fuel pump, filter and fuel pressure regulator) and the prices were alot higher for the BMW (Admittedly, the fuel pump on the Celica was cheaper to change with a higher flowing one that is physicly the same, I think it came from a XR8 Falcon). Admittedly though, if they were as bad as my (limited) experience has lead me to believe there wouldn't anywhere near as many surviving as there are.

[Subike]

If you take modern engine design and tec
look very hard at it and think
Why have they done all this
It is to comply with fuel emmission standards,
Take a very strong crank, block, cylinderhead configuration from any manufacturer
The feed it as much fuel as you can
and have an extraction system to remove the waste as efficently as you can
Forget about the pollution that come out of it
or that it will consume fuel like a drunken kiwi biker on a rally.
Where would you start?
With a modern motor? of something like a hemi headed twin cam from the 70"s
Remember back then fuel emissions were not a consideration, getting power /torque were
Put it in a chassis that works well,
Add a set of rubber that grips
And a driver who is not an idiot
then hit the hills and have fun.
The XK120 the DB4 the AC Cobra the Prince Skyline GTR were close to this

[Mushu]

Well, I suppose it doesn't matter how many times I told myself I wouldn't, I dropped the damn bike

No major damage to me or the bike, but there will need to be parts replaced and I have quite a sore foot (but to put it in perspective, I can't remeber any time I came off a pushbike and didn't have far more injuries than I have now.)

I could write a long story with a hundred excuses in it but that would kind of work against this as a learning experience so all I will say about the accident is that I had chosen a bad line around the corner and was surpriesed by something and over-reacted.
I actually came off when I was stopping as changing my line had me on the edge of the road so I was going very slow - less than 10kph.

I am very pissed off with myself as it all boils down to becoming complacent not taking due care.

But seeing as I'm on here to get some benefit of others experiences (and argue with randoms) I will pass on what I learned from this experience -
ATGATT, I had said in a few earlier posts that I don't ride without gear but sometimes skimp on the shoes and pants, I was wearing the pants at the time and I think they saved me a bit of skin, but I was wearing DC skate shoes, and they are leather and quite well padded so I think offered some protection but given how sore my foot was yesterday I think if that had have been a crash and not just a slow drop my foot could be in pretty bad shape.

Leather boots minimum from now on, I think. (Well, in a couple weeks when I get the bike fixed)