When you find yourself heading into the ditch

[Maki]

So you have never crashed then? on any bike?

Now, to be 100% honest I have. When I was 6 or 7 years old my parents got a Chopper bike for me. My father put me on it, took me to the top of a hill and let me go down. I crashed at the bottom of the hill but I don't remember having any thoughts about facing a certain crash before it happened. (That was the first time I ever rode that particular bike) I just crashed, got a bloody lip, scared the shit out of my father and that was that.

Have I ever crashed a motorcycle? No, but I have laid down my bikes twice in my own driveway while perfectly stationary... Hey, no one is perfect... Some people go through life and never even drop a bike...

[actungbaby]

Everyone at some point must have found themselves facing a certain crash only to just come out of it at the last second.

Ive recently been taught that if theres more weight over the front, it means you will turn a sharper line with the same lean angle (due to shortening your wheel base). So if you were heading off the road, and already in a turn. Would tapping the front brakes quickly throw weight forward and aid you turning in or would you just loose front end stability?

I surpose if meant stayiong on the raod it be worth a shoot you whouldint want to do to sudden movemnt though
or you might unload the front end

I tryed this on my c90 step thru moved back on the seat mid corner i fell of hehe

[actungbaby]

Now, to be 100% honest I have. When I was 6 or 7 years old my parents got a Chopper bike for me. My father put me on it, took me to the top of a hill and let me go down. I crashed at the bottom of the hill but I don't remember having any thoughts about facing a certain crash before it happened. (That was the first time I ever rode that particular bike) I just crashed, got a bloody lip, scared the shit out of my father and that was that.

Have I ever crashed a motorcycle? No, but I have laid down my bikes twice in my own driveway while perfectly stationary... Hey, no one is perfect... Some people go through life and never even drop a bike...

I had the same bike well didnt steal yours (so dont want here oh was you u $#@# i went of handle bars after biking down

Steep hill lower hutt and standing on pedals the bike jumped out second dam bike used to do that got 2 scaraped

up knees actually i never grazed myself like that falling of motorbike . hurt alot i was like that age

[Ocean1]

Ignore your ditch. look where you want to go, get on the gas and lead with your chin.........

The bike will do it's job mate, if you want to go with it then leave the fucking brake alone, crack the throttle and push on that inside bar.

Fear is the mind-killer...

[BoristheBiter]

Now, to be 100% honest I have. When I was 6 or 7 years old my parents got a Chopper bike for me. My father put me on it, took me to the top of a hill and let me go down. I crashed at the bottom of the hill but I don't remember having any thoughts about facing a certain crash before it happened. (That was the first time I ever rode that particular bike) I just crashed, got a bloody lip, scared the shit out of my father and that was that.

Have I ever crashed a motorcycle? No, but I have laid down my bikes twice in my own driveway while perfectly stationary... Hey, no one is perfect... Some people go through life and never even drop a bike...

So you crashed because you wanted to right?

I guess coming from dirt to road I just take the good with the bad. yes the first time was "what the fuck just happened" and it did take me awhile to get over that one the second was "meh I fucked up" I got over it.

I think that just puts me in the shit happens camp.

[scracha]

Find yourself heading towards a certain crash???

No such thing.

Bollocks. Whilst many riders give up waaaaay too early, there is a certain point where you should face reality, abandon all hope and start trying to scrub off as much speed as possible, aim for a soft landing and pick a point to kick yourself of the bike and put as much distance between yourself and 200ish Kg of flying metal as is possible.

[CookMySock]

A reduction in trail will allow for a faster turn in - at the expense of stability. It might be a suitable technqiue for use at the track when you plan to use it, rather than part way through a road corner after deciding you've over cooked it.

Ah yup, not too good with a front-heavy bike with steep geometry and cheap suspension either! You will get a wicked twitch out of it at the very least.

I think you are universally better off to ratchet balls up one notch, conserve your angle of lean, trail on the power gently, don't touch the brakes, and roll 'er gently into the corner with the bars. Empty pants coming out, and chalk it up to experience.

[R-Soul]

Twist of the writst is talking about what to do if you lose traction (with regard to throttle), as opposed to going into a corner too hot.

The same principles apply. The most traction you can get from a bike is when your weight is slightly on your back wheel, when you have a small amount of throttle on. Thats why your back wheel is bigger than your front wheel. So go around the corner with weight slightly on teh back wheel from a small amount of throttle ( if not going in waty too hot - for that, see below)
In a corner, your front wheel is providing sideways friction, pushing against the centripetal acceleration acting on your bike's mass (and yours) to push it off the outside of the corner. But there is only so much friction that can be used, before the tyre breaks away. By grabbing a bunch of brakes mid corner (when there is friction sideways), you are also adding a friction force in the forward direction. The net result of these two frictions forces can be summed as a vector (i.e. so not just a simple summation - but a summation nonetheless). So adding brakes to the turn can mean that the front tyre breaks away quicker because its adding additional friction.


To get the most traction you can, get your body as over to the inside as possible. This keeps the bike as upright as possible in the bend, so that the bike suspension is working closer to it's optimum design angle (i.e. upright). The better your suspension works, the less your bike will tend to drift wide, as there is more traction with less effect of teh wheel "skittering" (kind of like microjumping due to bad suspension action) across the road.

Also get your torso as low as possible to the side of the tank. Picture your bike from the front. Now think of the centripetal acceleration in a corner as a big torque wrench attached to the contact patch of your wheel on the ground, and pushing the bike and you over (around the contact patch) towards the outside of the corner. If your body mass is high on the bike, the torque wrench arm is bigger, and pushes you over with more torque. If you get lower on the bike, this reduces the torque arm acting on you and the bike, and has less effect on you and the bike, meaing that you can resist that acceleration and turn easier.

Also- countersteering: Everybody knows that countersteering is good. BUT: what is the best position in which to be able to provide the most (and most controlled) force on the inside bar? As any martial artist, windsurfer, or cricket batsman will tell you, you have the most (coontrolled) power when you are doing stuff in front of your centreline, and when you are comfortable and balanced. So move your body until the inside handle is in front of your centreline.

Lastly - and thanks Graham for this: When you go into a corner WAY to hot, and there is no possiblilty for rollling throttle on, then do this: Roll off throttle GENTLY. Sudden roll off will transfer weight to the front tyre suddenly, which is already struggling with too much friction to handle, and will make the front tyre break away. So roll off gently, get into a good position as per the above, and turn in with faith without throttle. There is a certain amount of energy that a tyre absorbs as it goes into a tight turn, as the road surface causes the tyre to deform and compress. Graham calls it "treadwalking" as the treads step over each other out of line. By turning in hard, the treadwalking or deformation of the tyre under high stress in itself uses up a lot of energy, and causes the bike to slow quite quickly.

If you still dont fancy your chances, then if you are going to brake, stand the bike up first, brake freaking hard, and then turn again. Just be damn careful of oncoming traffic if you move out of your lane in a left corner.

[pritch]

This is all personal opinion.

Think about it - how can the distance between your two axles change?

Got that far didn't read any more. I hope it got better.

Was just listening to MotoPod today and Colin Edwards was quoted as describing trail braking and how that puts weight on the front, shortens the wheelbase, and sharpens the turn.

He also said only an idiot would do that on the road.

'Course I've also heard that the aliens don't trail brake any more, they're either hard on the gas or hard on the brakes. No mucking about.

[BoristheBiter]

'Course I've also heard that the aliens don't trail brake any more, they're either hard on the gas or hard on the brakes. No mucking about.

Isn't that called the Andrew Stroud technique.

[Maki]

Was just listening to MotoPod today and Colin Edwards was quoted as describing trail braking and how that puts weight on the front, shortens the wheelbase, and sharpens the turn.

He also said only an idiot would do that on the road.

+1

%^&$**$^##

[darkwolf]

I'm open to correction but I assume when braking your suspension will compress. Depending on the rake of your forks this means the gap between your front wheel contact patch and your rear contact patch will technically come closer together. Whether this actually has an effect on your turn I wouldn't have the fogiest idea.

I see in the Twist book, they describe that the rear wheel effectively pivots around the front tyre in a corner (or at least that's how I read it). In that sense then, lightening the rear wheel and increasing load could increase the ability of the rear tyre to pivot. Of course the trade off is that the rear is more willing to overtake the front or cause the bike to lean over more. So it must be a VERY delicate balancing act.

[Brett]

Don't know about grabbing a handful of front mid-corner...sounds like trouble to me...instant ditch finder and bone breaker. I have however found that very gentle/progressive use of the rear brake can help tighten the line up a little. Best to focus on being smooth with clean lines...prevent those ditch fixating moments.

Edit: agree Maki's comment...only an idiot would consider trail braking on the road...shouldn't really be riding that quickly that you would need to!

In my experience, including riding into a few ditches as a new rider on my 250, 90% of road riding crashes with a single rider can be avoided by:
1) Riding at a speed equivalent to my skill level
2) instead of shitting bricks, target fixating and standing the bike up while trying to brake hard, lean and look into the corner where you want to go and focus on the line you want to take outta there. As has been said many times on these forums...your tyres can grip a lot better than you think they can - provided you haven't locked them up with a fist and toe full of brakes.
3) Riding with my eyes at the appropriate place in the road - ie not right in front of you, but watching the exit of the corner, looking where you want to go.

[EJK]

TAG: Thread of geniuses