When you find yourself heading into the ditch

[numbersixteen16]

Everyone at some point must have found themselves facing a certain crash only to just come out of it at the last second.

Ive recently been taught that if theres more weight over the front, it means you will turn a sharper line with the same lean angle (due to shortening your wheel base). So if you were heading off the road, and already in a turn. Would tapping the front brakes quickly throw weight forward and aid you turning in or would you just loose front end stability?

[nodrog:Me]

Everyone at some point must have found themselves facing a certain crash only to just come out of it at the last second.

Ive recently been taught that if theres more weight over the front, it means you will turn a sharper line with the same lean angle (due to shortening your wheel base). So if you were heading off the road, and already in a turn. Would tapping the front brakes quickly throw weight forward and aid you turning in or would you just loose front end stability?

You should be able to grab a handful of front brake and stop in 2 metres. If that fails and you lowside, just climb up on the side of the bike and surf it along until it stops.

[sinfull]

What he said, but do a handstand !

[slofox]

Would tapping the front brakes quickly throw weight forward and aid you turning in or would you just loose front end stability?

Tell ya what - you try that out an' let us all know what happens, eh?

But, seriously, you may well lose the front end real damn quick. And there's no saving it then.

[p.dath]

Everyone at some point must have found themselves facing a certain crash only to just come out of it at the last second.

Ive recently been taught that if theres more weight over the front, it means you will turn a sharper line with the same lean angle (due to shortening your wheel base). So if you were heading off the road, and already in a turn. Would tapping the front brakes quickly throw weight forward and aid you turning in or would you just loose front end stability?

This is all personal opinion.

No, having more weight over the front tyre will not alter how sharp you can turn if the lean angle and velocity remain constant. The wheel base will not shorten if you shift your weight over the front tyre (until the extreme happens and a wheel lifts off the ground). Think about it - how can the distance between your two axles change?

It's a very delicate balance you have to maintain if you decide to use the front brake in a corner *after* it has gone bad. So difficult that you'll be lucky if you find anyone recommend this approach. It is almost certain to lead to disaster.

Thre first issue is that the use of the front brake will cause the bike to stand up. This means you will loose your ability to turn. Almost certainly this will cause you to run off the road on its own.

But lets pretend that even with the front brake on, that you still have enough lean after the turning circle has been reduced. Yes you will transfer weight to the front wheel. Yes that will increase front wheel grip (this is assuming the front brake is not applied suddenly). However the rear wheel will now loose weight, and grip. And it will have considerable lateral force on it. So the back wheel is just as likely to step out.

Consider the exteme case. You apply to much front brake and the rear wheel comes off the ground. You are now riding a unicycle. Can you imagine trying to do hard cornering on a unicycle? It just wont work.


So what most people would suggest is you maintain an even throttle. Don't close it completely. This will maintain even weight (and hence grip) on both of your wheels. And then adopt the attitude to never give up. You have to look where you want the bike to end up, and simply turn harder. Your brain needs to believe you are going to make it.

[short-circuit]

This is all personal opinion.

No, having more weight over the front tyre will not alter how sharp you can turn if the lean angle and velocity remain constant. The wheel base will not shorten if you shift your weight over the front tyre (until the extreme happens and a wheel lifts off the ground). Think about it - how can the distance between your two axles change?

It's a very delicate balance you have to maintain if you decide to use the front brake in a corner *after* it has gone bad. So difficult that you'll be lucky if you find anyone recommend this approach. It is almost certain to lead to disaster.

Thre first issue is that the use of the front brake will cause the bike to stand up. This means you will loose your ability to turn. Almost certainly this will cause you to run off the road on its own.

But lets pretend that even with the front brake on, that you still have enough lean after the turning circle has been reduced. Yes you will transfer weight to the front wheel. Yes that will increase front wheel grip (this is assuming the front brake is not applied suddenly). However the rear wheel will now loose weight, and grip. And it will have considerable lateral force on it. So the back wheel is just as likely to step out.

Consider the exteme case. You apply to much front brake and the rear wheel comes off the ground. You are now riding a unicycle. Can you imagine trying to do hard cornering on a unicycle? It just wont work.


So what most people would suggest is you maintain an even throttle. Don't cose it completely. This will maintain even weight (and hence grip) on both of your wheels. And then adopt the attitude to never give up. You have to look where you want the bike to end up, and simply turn harder. Your brain needs to believe you are going to make it.

Are you related to DangerousBastard?

[G4L4XY]

Just do a stoppie around the corner

[BoristheBiter]

I chose the ditch.

[bogan]

No, having more weight over the front tyre will not alter how sharp you can turn if the lean angle and velocity remain constant. The wheel base will not shorten if you shift your weight over the front tyre (until the extreme happens and a wheel lifts off the ground). Think about it - how can the distance between your two axles change?

Cos the front one goes up at an angle, it gets closer to the rear.

But, and its a big one, you need to have some grip in reserve to do that, and if you have grip in reserve (as you should always have on the road), just push the inside bar and tighten the line.

Having the front loaded up will cause it to turn in sharper, but more due to the change in rake than wheelbase. But since you've already turned in and hit the fear barrier, bad time for a weight change! Simplest solution is best, running wide? turn tighter.

[SPP]

OP: That is what CSS call a hook turn. As the front compresses the wheelbase is shortened and the result is a tighter arc.

However, abruptly transferring weight to the front (like rolling off the throttle or dabbing the front brakes) actually stands the bike up and sends you wide... try it, that's exactly what happens.

Some say to lightly apply the rear brake. The reasoning being that lightly applying the rear brake slows you down but 1) doesn't transfer the weight forward as abruptly as the front brake 2) lengthens the wheelbase because of the 'flattening' swing arm. Longer wheelbase equals increased stability. I'd be careful with this though, the last thing you want to do is lock the rear.

[slofox]

If you really need to lose speed in a corner, you can always use the BACK brake - carefully - while keeping the throttle open far enough to keep positive drive on the back wheel. There's a kinda balance point between the two that will allow you to lose speed (quite quickly if you get it right) without locking up the back. I've used this technique often enough over the past 44 years to be happy doing it. Course it's more betterer not to have to lose speed in the corner in the first place...

[Ender EnZed]

I chose the ditch.

So did I. It was muddy.

[SPP]

If you really need to lose speed in a corner, you can always use the BACK brake - carefully - while keeping the throttle open far enough to keep positive drive on the back wheel. There's a kinda balance point between the two that will allow you to lose speed (quite quickly if you get it right) without locking up the back. I've used this technique often enough over the past 44 years to be happy doing it. Course it's more betterer not to have to lose speed in the corner in the first place...

cool, pretty advanced technique though eh?

[Str8 Jacket]

I'd probably just seize the engine before I got to the ditch....

[slofox]

cool, pretty advanced technique though eh?

Well...actually I learned it all by myself - I don't even remember how now - on my first ever bike - a 1953 Ariel 350cc single. I was in Christchurch and regularly rode the Port Hills Summit Road. Somehow I discovered that technique and have used it ever since.

Like I said though - better to have your speed right before the corner...