teenage road deaths

[Dafe]

I'm not concerned about the CC ratings or weight restrictions etc. I like the idea of introducing compulsory insurance.
A 16 year old insuring a 2001 WRX at $6000 a year.
A 16 year old insuring a 1978 Triumph 2500 at $200 a year.

And to make sure parents don't insure it for their children......
Insurance policies need to declare drivers under 25 years old.
To insure a driver aged 16, as a named driver under their parents insurance policy - driving a 2001 WRX, will cost........ $6000 a year!

Also - I like the European approach to licencing, I can't remember which country does this, Switzerland maybe.
16 years old - Moped Learner.
17 Years old - Moped with Pillion.
18 Year old - High powered Moped Learner.
19 Year old - High Powered Moped & Pillion
20 Year Old - Full Licence

Time to get rid of Labour and the crap policies and get some proactive parties involved - Change is Good!

[scumdog]

I fell off the couch tonight when the moron media said that the occupants weren't wearing seatbelts.
How could they tell?
They had enough trouble identifying the make of car.
As if it would make a difference in a car that went sideways into a tree at 130kph, and then did a good impression of a sunbeam mixmaster.
The comment apparently came from the police;
I can't just see it...
"They weren't wearing seatbelts" said Officer Porky.
And to prove that,however unlikely something might be,nothing is impossible.
He flaps his wings,kicks off with his trotters,and with a little oink,flies off into the distance.

The point being NOT that they would have survived the crash if wearing belts but the fact they were not wearing them ergo may have got through a lesser crash (had it occurred) with less injury had they been wearing seatbelts.

Stop trolling or start thinking. Or both

[Lou Girardin]

The point being NOT that they would have survived the crash if wearing belts but the fact they were not wearing them ergo may have got through a lesser crash (had it occurred) with less injury had they been wearing seatbelts.

Stop trolling or start thinking. Or both

No Scumdog, the police spooksman said that "none of the occupants were wearing seatbelts, there may have been more survivors if they had".
He couldn't have had a close look at the car. The tree and power pole had intruded from one side of the passenger cabin to the other. The miracle was that 2 survived.
Maybe the cops they interview on TV should have a quick refresher training in commonsense.
Either that, or get over this fixation with speed and seatbelts.

[spudchucka]

The point being NOT that they would have survived the crash if wearing belts but the fact they were not wearing them ergo may have got through a lesser crash (had it occurred) with less injury had they been wearing seatbelts.

Stop trolling or start thinking. Or both

The fact that two of the six survived the crash without seat belts would lead me to wonder whether others may have survived if seat belts were worn.

I fell off the couch tonight when the moron media said that the occupants weren't wearing seatbelts.
How could they tell?

Pixie obviously hasn't cleaned up too many bodies in the morgue or he would be able to answer that stupid question himself. There are always quite overt signs of seatbelt wearage. Not to mention the crash inspectors have tricky little methods of knowing such things.

Anyway, the post is a troll and just an opportunity for him to crack his sorry porky pig, flying pig jokes that give him some form of gratification.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yup. You have to start with your own kids, as I know you've done, right from birth. Attitude is everything. I had the privilege of teaching drums to a young man (he was 14 when he started lessons) who avoided all the standard attitudinal issues teenage blokes go through. The reason? Swift discipline from his Dad, a fantastic bloke, and at the time I met them a just retired NZ Army Major. Every time he stepped out of line, or was disrespectful he was reeled in, irrespective of situation or social accepotibility. His boundaries were clearly defined, and by 15 he was a rational thinker with an understanding of consequences and the rewards of hard work. One of the fvew pupils I've had who practiced most of the time, and never lied to me about NOT having practiced.

DIscipline is everything. Discipline is not whacking people. Discipline is the strength of character to respond appropriately to a difficult situation. It requires training to be effective. Parents are the trainers in this case. or not.

You are quite right. It all starts in the home. The proof is out there.

[Ixion]

... There are always quite overt signs of seatbelt wearage. Not to mention the crash inspectors have tricky little methods of knowing such things.

..

Presumably, one give away would be if the seat belts were nicely retracted.

[Ixion]

I'm not concerned about the CC ratings or weight restrictions etc. I like the idea of introducing compulsory insurance.
A 16 year old insuring a 2001 WRX at $6000 a year.
A 16 year old insuring a 1978 Triumph 2500 at $200 a year.

And to make sure parents don't insure it for their children......
Insurance policies need to declare drivers under 25 years old.
To insure a driver aged 16, as a named driver under their parents insurance policy - driving a 2001 WRX, will cost........ $6000 a year!

Also - I like the European approach to licencing, I can't remember which country does this, Switzerland maybe.
16 years old - Moped Learner.
17 Years old - Moped with Pillion.
18 Year old - High powered Moped Learner.
19 Year old - High Powered Moped & Pillion
20 Year Old - Full Licence

Time to get rid of Labour and the crap policies and get some proactive parties involved - Change is Good!

There is much failure of understanding about suggestions to introduce compulsory incurance. As far as I am aware the only proposal is compulsory THIRD PARTY insurance. I do not think that any country makes full insurance compulsory. Since third party only covers the cost of damage you do to SOMEONE ELSE'S property, the value of your own car is irrelevant. Insurance companies may charge extra for drivers with high powered cars, or extra for young drivers, on the basis that they are more likely to have accidents in general, but the differential is unlikely to be great.

Moreover, there are all sorts of problems with trying to use such an approach to driver control.

What is to stop the young driver insuring the car in Mum's name. Yes, certainly that may mean that the insurance will be invalid in the event of a crash, but so what. He doesn't have any now anyway. And such substitution would not be a crime (or, at any rate, to make it one would involve a very major redefinition of the role of insurance companies). Or cars insured under company names.

And what about a young driver who owns two cars , a safe old one, and a high powered one.

Or the driver who modifies a car. Yes, he should notify the insurance company and if doesn't his insurance will not pay out. So what, he does not care, all he wants is the certificate of insurance. The modification will not be discovered until he has an accident , and he knows he is not going to have one.

If the government cannot enforce a law restricting vehicle power for certain drivers, I fail to see how passing that responsibility to insurance companies solves the problem.

I consider all these calls for compulsary insurance are just part of the general beat up of old people on young people. Old people hate seeing young people with fast cars, because it reminds them (the oldies) of what they no longer are. The olds have become grey boring and tedious and hate youff for not being thus.

[MSTRS:Me]

Old people hate seeing young people with fast cars, because it reminds them (the oldies) of what they no longer are. The olds have become grey boring and tedious and hate youff for not being thus.

I don't know about anyone else, but my vehicles are all faster, sleeker & more powerful then anything I rode/drove as a callow youth. It's just that I now have a better understanding of the laws of physics and would like to pass that on.
Yea I know, experience is the greatest teacher and all that, but I'd be failing myself if I didn't try.

[spudchucka]

Yea I know, experience is the greatest teacher and all that, but I'd be failing myself if I didn't try.

The sad part in all of this is that it took the experience of losing four of their mates to teach the friends of the dead kids the lesson that older heads have been trying to convince the younger heads of all along.

The kids within the circle of influence of the dead ones will never forget this. When they grow older and have their own kids they will preach to them the danger of fooling around in cars. Their kids no doubt will think mum or dad is just a crusty old fool who doesn't know how to have fun anymore, just like the kids do now.

[yungatart]

The sad part in all of this is that it took the experience of losing four of their mates to teach the friends of the dead kids the lesson that older heads have been trying to convince the younger heads of all along.

The kids within the circle of influence of the dead ones will never forget this. When they grow older and have their own kids they will preach to them the danger of fooling around in cars. Their kids no doubt will think mum or dad is just a crusty old fool who doesn't know how to have fun anymore, just like the kids do now.

Aaah- beg to differ! Those same friends and associates of the deceased were out racing around Hastings on Ssaturday night- only 24 hours later, seems they forgot the lesson real quick.

[Lou Girardin]

There is much failure of understanding about suggestions to introduce compulsory incurance. As far as I am aware the only proposal is compulsory THIRD PARTY insurance. I do not think that any country makes full insurance compulsory. Since third party only covers the cost of damage you do to SOMEONE ELSE'S property, the value of your own car is irrelevant. Insurance companies may charge extra for drivers with high powered cars, or extra for young drivers, on the basis that they are more likely to have accidents in general, but the differential is unlikely to be great.
.

In the UK, the cost of 3rd party insurance has a huge effect on the ability of youngsters to buy cars or bikes.
If you're young and want a litre bike or car with GTi, WRX, EVO in the name, forget it. Unless you are wealthy or course.
In Addition, the insurance there runs with the car. Not the driver.

[Lou Girardin]

Aaah- beg to differ! Those same friends and associates of the deceased were out racing around Hastings on Ssaturday night- only 24 hours later, seems they forgot the lesson real quick.

And the 4 dead kids lost ANOTHER mate 2 weeks before in a road accident.

[Ixion]

In the UK, the cost of 3rd party insurance has a huge effect on the ability of youngsters to buy cars or bikes.
If you're young and want a litre bike or car with GTi, WRX, EVO in the name, forget it. Unless you are wealthy or course.
In Addition, the insurance there runs with the car. Not the driver.

That is because of the third party personal injury component in the UK. That is what the insurance companies fear, a claim for millions of pounds because someone is left crippled for life.

We don't have that component in NZ because of our ACC. So the most the insurance company could be up for is damage to a third party car or maybe a house . Relatively small change.

So we can't compare the NZ and UK experiences, our ACC legislation takes the "sting" out of it. That is why we don't have compulsory third party at present.

We used to have compulsory third party years ago before ACC was introduced. You had to nominate an insurer from a list when you registered your car. They dropped it when ACC came in.

[mstriumph]

Surely not!! [there are MUCH better reasons to hate them for than THAT lol]

...................................
Old people hate seeing young people with fast cars, because it reminds them (the oldies) of what they no longer are. The olds have become grey boring and tedious and hate youff for not being thus.

[HDTboy]

If insurance was compulsory, wouldn't the insurance companies put the prices up? Like the petrol companies do.
Power to weight restrictions would be sensible until 17 year old Gavin comes up to a corner in his 2L VL commode, and still doesn't have the skills needed to get the heavy POS around without spinning it.
NZ drivers are shit. I see examples of it every day, wether I'm in a car, walking, or on a bike.
I feel that people should have to pass their restricted bike licence before becoming eligible to sit the learner car licence test.

PS. Saw you letter in the herald today Lou.