Harley V-Rod pipes and tuning?

[Foghorn]

Thanks for that info skippa1, I was thinking that the onboard ECU would be able to cope with the change of the cans, but I can't find anything that really confirms that, I was very concerned about fuel consumption going up.

I have read the Tab Performance stuff as well thanks 98tls, it comes down to the same issue, although I may not have to put it on the dyno as they have already done the maps for them.

[skinman]

If it helps I didnt change anything when I put new pipes on mine, no change in gas consumption either

[98tls]

No problem.When i started mucking about with my old bike ie gutting the airbox,was considering bigger headers etc i bought a Yoshimura fuel ingector adjuster,old school power commander really,less adjustable etc but the advantage is its plug n play and if you fuck it up its simple to return everything to factory settings,,no charges for someones dyno and said dyno is only as good as the guy in charge of the thing,twice ive seen bikes put on a dyno and i swear to god my dog would have had more of an idea about what was going on,if it wasnt so sad it would have been amusing.

[Gremlin]

Can't speak specifically to the cruisers or HD, but a power commander simply modifies the signals sent by the ECU (+ or - a number). It plugs in between the ECU and engine, so can be removed with no lasting effect. They normally come with a zero map installed, which basically means it does nothing to the signals from the ECU.

Powercommander would have maps available for download, but you'd need to have the same bike, same fuel, same altitude etc. Therefore downloaded maps would only get you close. A custom map should be the best your bike could get (but obviously costs more). The more you modify, the more likely you will need a custom map to get the ideal tune.

[haydes55]

Thanks Road kill,

Tried reading the HD forums, but sadly still very confusing.... nothing seems to be straight.

>>reading the HD forums, but sadly still very confusing.... nothing seems to be straight.

> reading the HD forums, nothing seems to be straight.

[The Lone Rider]

Any exhaust mod or change will result in a change in the way the engine runs. How picky you want to be about tuning it is up to you.

There are a couple of products you can use.

One type of system will allow you to download Pre-Sets to it. You go to their website, enter in your bike/engine, and the aftermarket parts you have newly installed. This only will be accurate if you have exactly the same aftermarket parts as listed for their pre-sets. You may have to settle for something close to what you have. This is the way to go if you're buying common over the shelf aftermarket parts, like Vance And Hines pipes.

Another system will allow you to program the way it works. For this you will need the bike take to the appropriate place that can work with the device, have the bike dynoed, then have them tweak the unit to what it needs to be. This is the way to go if you modify the exhaust, but also not a disadvantage if you use aftermarket parts as you can get very specific settings to your bike.



There are variations on either type of system, depending on the product selected. Some have dials that allow you to change the mapping on the side of the road (ie... swap to a mapping for higher altitude).


At the end of the day... you only need the retune it if you absolutely need or want peak performance, or if you are making a significant change (like fully open exhausts).

Modify them yourself. Costs you nothing. Better to try first, then to just go right out and spend money on a new V&H exhaust.

Here's what I can make a 250 sound like with simple modification
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater


-- FYI... Cobra exhausts tend to be VERY loud. So maybe avoid if you only want a little bit louder.

[skippa1]

Any exhaust mod or change will result in a change in the way the engine runs. How picky you want to be about tuning it is up to you.

There are a couple of products you can use.

One type of system will allow you to download Pre-Sets to it. You go to their website, enter in your bike/engine, and the aftermarket parts you have newly installed. This only will be accurate if you have exactly the same aftermarket parts as listed for their pre-sets. You may have to settle for something close to what you have. This is the way to go if you're buying common over the shelf aftermarket parts, like Vance And Hines pipes.

Another system will allow you to program the way it works. For this you will need the bike take to the appropriate place that can work with the device, have the bike dynoed, then have them tweak the unit to what it needs to be. This is the way to go if you modify the exhaust, but also not a disadvantage if you use aftermarket parts as you can get very specific settings to your bike.



There are variations on either type of system, depending on the product selected. Some have dials that allow you to change the mapping on the side of the road (ie... swap to a mapping for higher altitude).


At the end of the day... you only need the retune it if you absolutely need or want peak performance, or if you are making a significant change (like fully open exhausts).

Modify them yourself. Costs you nothing. Better to try first, then to just go right out and spend money on a new V&H exhaust.

Here's what I can make a 250 sound like with simple modification
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater


-- FYI... Cobra exhausts tend to be VERY loud. So maybe avoid if you only want a little bit louder.

Close but not quite......HD and Vics come from the US running very lean due to emissions laws. If you change exhaust ormake it breathe you need to richen it up or you will burn valves or even melt a piston if you get had on the gas.
Even a custom tune on a Power Commander when dynod sets a state of tune for certain set of circumstances, I repeat, it overides the ECU and it wont run the same unless the same circumstances are present. Suit yourself what you do, its your money but choose wisely, the guy I know has spent over $4k on all this now and the bike isnt running right...his words....I wish I had left it alone.

[skippa1]

by the way, there is a world of difference between a boulavard, a 250 or grandads ol bike and yours, you now that, you chose an HD Vrod. The same applies to the tune, you cant just fuck around with it wthout upsetting other parts of the performnce, so whilst there are those that have altered their bike and added a PC or similar, did they have a 50 state bike, did they have ehaust 02 sensors, did they have idle air valves that lean itout in closed throttle.....

[DMNTD:Me]

I ve got a good friend with a 2010 V Rod Muscle and he has been through all this. He drilled the baffles and it helped a little as they do sound like a sewing machine with the standard pipes. He then got a set of V&H slipons, filter and power commander. It had to be dynod and air fuel mix set.....heres the crunch though....the power commander essentially over rules the ECU so it will override changes made by the ECU to allow for altitude, temp, 02 levels etc and so whilst it may run perfect on the tuning machine, if you change altitude or there are other changes, it may run too rich or lean. He is having hells own time with it, he is fussy about his bike but he does get carbon puffs out of the exhaust depending on where he is etc. He has been back to the shop a few times now....no joy. The other issue is that his fuel consumption has gone up consderably. He is now wondering if it was worth it at all.

I have been doing the same with the Victory, I just put some Conquest Customs Ocane pipes (pic on my profile)on and talked to them in the states. He said the same thing.....dont get a power comander because of tuning issues and the fact that it overides the ECU. A Victory tune to the ECU itself is on the way and a Lloyds ide air valve should get me close to right.......its not a precise science and not cheap.

Good luck

Am I wrong in thinking that a PC5 (as opposed to a PC3) can allow/modify for such circumstances?
I also believe that it can run several different maps too.

[jrandom]

To the OP, do what I did to my Nightster a week after I bought it - get a holesaw up it and whack the baffles out.

You can splash out on fancy aftermarket pipes and tuning later. (In the meantime you're probably in the same boat as me and still paying for the bike itself.) Reality is it'll still run fine. You might notice reduced fuel economy. Probably more so than I do, but not to any prohibitive extent. Maybe it'll have a slightly fluffier throttle response, but you won't notice it if you're not looking for it.

Anyway, if you just bought a brand new V-Rod, fuel economy wasn't your priority, was it? And V-Rods have proper-sized tanks, so you'll still have decent range off a fill.

There's no actual need to spend thousands straight up if you just want a bike that doesn't sound like a sewing machine. Just unbolt the pipes, drop them off at your local engineering workshop, and tell them to make them choice.

[nadroj]

As I understand it, the critical point in the RPM range is at the point the db (noise rating) is taken at. This is because the factory lean the fuel as much as possible to quieten it at the regulated RPM monitoring point.
When exhaust modifications are made, air-flow is increased which needs a corresponding increase in fuel to avoid leaning out. This becomes critical as the leanest point is in the RPM range most used for hard acceleration.

[tnarg]

My dad got this from Vince and Hines http://www.fuelpakfi.com/vtwin/aboutfuelpak.html for his Fat Bob. He put screaming Eagle pipes on it and some aftermarket air filter on it. The price from the states is good and is easy to install.

[Foghorn]

Thank you everybody for your input, some very good information. I really do appreciate it.

[Maha]

The more you modify, the more likely you will need a custom map to get the ideal tune.

I was told that when I asked...(not emailed) direct to the machanic who was going to fit a slip-on to my bike/s
You only need a custom map when fitting a complete system.
Go straight to the Dealer from which you bought the bike Foghorn...and ask the question.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thank you everybody for your input, some very good information. I really do appreciate it.

Hey there Brendan! If you're simply gonna remove some baffles etc from the mufflers, the bike will generally fuel fine without having to use a PC or a Pro Tuner etc. It's normally when you change complete exhaust systems and air cleaners etc that the fuelling can get a bit hairy.

You won't do any major harm by just trying it after a minor muffler mod. The injection can self compensate + or - rich or lean 10%.

Hope you're enjoying it!

Pete