New Zealand army - no weapons no ammo.

[idb]

Fiji is probably one of the most militarised countries around. Three full infantry battalions -- two usually overseas on UN peacekeeping duties and one at home for training/reserve. The revenue generated from this -- all in US$ -- is a major contributor to the Fijian economy. Officers all trained at Duntroon, here and Sandhurst. Hard as nails with good kit and loads of recent combat experience. I wonder what possible use they could make of Israeli "mercenaries"...

Could it be that the government feels the need to be protected from their own army?

[sAsLEX]

Fiji is probably one of the most militarised countries around. Three full infantry battalions -- two usually overseas on UN peacekeeping duties and one at home for training/reserve. The revenue generated from this -- all in US$ -- is a major contributor to the Fijian economy. Officers all trained at Duntroon, here and Sandhurst. Hard as nails with good kit and loads of recent combat experience. I wonder what possible use they could make of Israeli "mercenaries"...

came through training with a fijian dude, they can climb flagpoles real good as well....

[Ixion]

On a semi related topic..

Anyone else in favour of bringing back compulsory national service? For the uninformed thats requiring every man and woman to serve a a period of time in the armed forces, generally 1-2 years during the 18-26 age range.

PS: Wolf is a hippy and would abolished the armfed forces and have us all singing Kumbaya when Indonesia invades

/me is a Communist, and would abolish the armed forces so as to make the revolution easier. Indonesia might have some problems invading NZ, on account of all that water. Amphibious operations call for VERY good troops and a VERY good navy. Brits are probably the only ones who could manage it.

[idb]

This must have been what I heard.

Fiji's military leaders have dismissed a suggestion by a former soldier that he could set up a mercenary force to combat the army if it tries to take over the government.

Our reporter, Sean Dorney, says the Fiji Sun newspaper quotes the ex-soldier as saying he could assemble, what he calls, his "protection squad" in less than a week..

The newspaper report quotes a man, who claims to be an Israeli trained Fijian security officer, as saying it is time somebody stood up to the threats being made by Fiji's military commander, Commodore Frank Bainimarama.

The newspaper says he claims he briefed Fiji's Prime Minister, Laisenia Qarase, three weeks ago on his proposed protection force, and that last Wednesday he had talks with the home affairs minister.

Commodore Bainimarama, who is in New Caledonia, is quoted by the Fiji Live website as describing the man as "a loser" who was kicked out of the army some time ago.

Fiji Live also quotes the Police Commissioner, Andrew Hughes, as expressing surprise at the story, and saying that as one of the country's key security officers, he knows nothing about somebody offering to provide a protection force for the prime minister.

The military has threatened to remove the government if the proposed Reconciliation, Tolerance and Unity Bill is passed.

There are concerns the bill could see the perpetrators of the 2000 coup freed.

The military accuses the government of trying to neutralise the courts, the public prosecutor, the police and military.

[sAsLEX]

this is what I parade with not to familiar with the gun drills these are bloody dangerous and could poke out an eye!

will ask around about the current drill paractices and return

[Ixion]

this is what I parade with not to familiar with the gun drills these are bloody dangerous and could poke out an eye!

will ask around about the current drill paractices and return

Uh, that's a Royal Naval senior officer's dress (ie ceremonial) sword. they don't do parade drill.

[Wolf]

On a semi related topic..

Anyone else in favour of bringing back compulsory national service? For the uninformed thats requiring every man and woman to serve a a period of time in the armed forces, generally 1-2 years during the 18-26 age range.

PS: Wolf is a hippy and would abolished the armfed forces and have us all singing Kumbaya when Indonesia invades

And LiasTZ is all for CMT provided they put him at the top of the armed forces so it's everyone else being shot at, not him

If Indonesia even manages to find it's own arse with an atlas it'll be headline news, but in the extremely unlikely event that they worked out how to get enough of them here to mount an invasion, I'd be what is commonly called "Resistance".

I am no pacifist - I just prefer my own judgment over that of some stupid politico or General.

[idb]

[QUOTE=Wolf]If Indonesia even manages to find it's own arse with an atlas it'll be headline news, but in the extremely unlikely event that they worked out how to get enough of them here to mount an invasion, I'd be what is commonly called "Resistance".
QUOTE]
"Listen carefully...I shall say zis only once..."

[Wolf]

"Listen carefully...I shall say zis only once..."

"Why?"

"Because zis drainpipe is loooooooooossssse" *crash*

I would be more in favour of our armed forces if we went the way of the Swiss - Armed Neutrality. No aiding and abetting the Yanks, Aussies, Poms or anyone else for that matter. Anyone who attacks us gets obliterated, end of story.

It has served the Swiss well for a large number of years - even the Americans had to learn the hard way that "yes, this applies to you too."

[Lias]

And LiasTZ is all for CMT provided they put him at the top of the armed forces so it's everyone else being shot at, not him

If Indonesia even manages to find it's own arse with an atlas it'll be headline news, but in the extremely unlikely event that they worked out how to get enough of them here to mount an invasion, I'd be what is commonly called "Resistance".

I am no pacifist - I just prefer my own judgment over that of some stupid politico or General.

CMT is too my mind an inherently defensive thing. Almost all the countries that have current CMT programs are smaller countiries, where a regular army simply isnt large enough to be able to defend the country, or that have a history of being invaded. Israel, Singapore, Denmark, Finland, Cyprus, Greece, South Korea, Norway, Poland, Switzerland, Taiwan to name a few.. With the exception of Israel I dont think any of these countries has been involved in a shooting war for half a century, they are for the most part democratic, well run 1st world countries. CMT is simply a sensible precaution practised by the majority of the 1st world countries that cannot afford huge standing military forces like the superpowers.

CMT troops wouldnt be out invading other countries, or "dying for the politicians" and to say they would be is just emotive nonsense. The only time they'd ever be involved in a shooting war would be in defense of the country, any overseas duties (be it peacekeeping or helping the yanks bomb the middle east back to the stonage) would be the realm of "Regular" army units.

You say that in the unlikely event were invaded you'd join the resistance.. Seriously consider this thou.. Whats going to be more effective, a civiilian resistance with almost no military training, or a resistance comprising of civilains with military training?

[idb]

"Why?"

"Because zis drainpipe is loooooooooossssse" *crash*

I would be more in favour of our armed forces if we went the way of the Swiss - Armed Neutrality. No aiding and abetting the Yanks, Aussies, Poms or anyone else for that matter. Anyone who attacks us gets obliterated, end of story.

It has served the Swiss well for a large number of years - even the Americans had to learn the hard way that "yes, this applies to you too."

Wouldn't that be the most expensive option you could choose?

It seems to be me, as a bar-room expert, that alliances, and a country's commitment to them are made and discarded as situations dictate, and are often driven by the self-interest of a country beyond military and defence considerations.

The loose Western alliance that we are in gives us the ability to pick and choose our commitment according to our own self-interest to some extent.

Australia's seemingly blind support of the USA in Iraq secured them an agricultural agreement that guaranteed easier access to American producers to the Aussie market - that was good deal.

Sure there are the risks of upsetting 'friends' but in international relations tiffs are soon forgotten when self-interest is involved.

[TwoSeven]

Well, NZ is simply too big to be defended by about 500 people (about the sum total of effective combat capable troops there are here). So I think people need to get real and give up on the idea of 'defending' anything.

However, 'protecting' things is a totally different story. NZ have a vested interest in its 12mile and 200mile limits and protectorate nations that need looking after. This requires some maritime capability in both surface and air patrol, insure, medium and ocean going.

Thats pretty much what the navy does, hence no-one bitches about it. They are getting new frigates/patrol craft and electronics.

The airforce is a joke and I dont really know why it exists - personally, it does nothing that cant be done by a navy airforce. Merging it would reduce the logistics costs which are the biggest military cost we have.

The army is currently a bigger joke than the airforce - but in the case of the army, it doesnt need to be. Ok, we dont have or need a 'fighting' force. What we do need is heavy industries, electronics industries, engineering, IT, Management and all that stuff. If the army focused more on the services side by performing both civvy services and military services it could literally self fund itself. Quite a few countries do this and make a mint (I think fiji was mentioned by someone else).

Again, the army should be put under the navy and become a 'marine' force and use a central form of logistics.

Currently defense spending is in the areas of modernisation with regards to peace keeping and maritime effort. I think they also need to focus on developing business skills and capability.

[Wolf]

You say that in the unlikely event were invaded you'd join the resistance.. Seriously consider this thou.. Whats going to be more effective, a civiilian resistance with almost no military training, or a resistance comprising of civilains with military training?

Properly trained people, of course. We would also need to have the same training as the Swiss have to make it work - they all know what is expected of them so that they can function autonomously until they can contact their commanders and the structure of their armed forces is such that they can respond to a threat quickly.

But that's all they do - respond to threats. They don't have a law that says if you've served in the Armed Forces within the last 12 years you can be called in to fight if "your country" (read: "Bill English sucking up to the US") decides to get involved in someone else's war. The Swiss people are expected to fight only if someone attacks them - and it's been years now since anyone was that stupid.

We have had CMT here in the past, we have also had conscription. We also had the US come here and root our sheilas during WWII because our boys were off saving the poms' arses in Crete (which Tin Tits Thatcher "thanked" us for by supporting French Trade Sanctions against us after we arrested those froggy terrorists) when the Japs were making inroads into the Pacific.

The question now is: What use are conventional models of military, including the Swiss Militia, in the face of "enemies" who hide amongst us and pop out only to blow themselves and a few other people up?

There is not a military system in the world that can successfully battle the "new" way of waging war. Sure they can run about with high tech gadgets and look for the purpetrator's assistants afterwards, but it's generally too late to do anything about the bus load of dead and hideously maimed victims.

The only way is to turn the place into such a police state that people will be moving to oppressive regimes for the relative freedom.

[750Y]

no guns? no ammo? how they sposed to kill people now? (...runs for cover)

[sAsLEX]

Uh, that's a Royal Naval senior officer's dress (ie ceremonial) sword. they don't do parade drill.

well its bloody similar to the ones I have paraded with, which are the same as the senior officers ones, and we copy most shit off the RN.

I mean wtf would I know, its not like its part of my job to carry one of these around while driving a squad around a parade ground.