Originally Posted by Akzle
isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.
holy shit, that was well written.
"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."
enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.
i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?
i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.
i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.
"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."
i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.
"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."
how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?
I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.
i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.
yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?
"Your rights are not absolute."
what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?
"People are largely motivated by self interest."
this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?
and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)
"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."
hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)
law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?
and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.
"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"
see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.
"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"
i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.
my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?
"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."
of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)
the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.
you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.
"I agree with them."
i don't
"to then deliberately waste Police time"
i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.
why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?
if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?
if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?
this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them
if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?
love it.
((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))
Great snappin duck-turds, anybody else bother to read that screamin green river of codswollop???
(Sheesh, the poor keyboard, life expectancy 15% that of the average keyboard...)
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