Speeding, is it the real issue?

[GTRMAN]

So to summarise,

• Speed is most often a factor but not always the cause of an accident.
• NZ has more than its fair share of poorly designed / maintained roads
• Our driver licensing system turns out poorly trained and over confident drivers
• Too many people think it is fine to operate a motor vehicle after drinking / smoking / shooting up etc.

It would seem that we are all very good at identifying the problems, what are some solutions?

I’ll get the ball rolling (ideas, not personal opinions)...
• If you wish to indulge in your recreational drug of choice then do so, by all means, just leave the keys and your vehicle at home. ZERO tolerance, removes the question of ‘how much is OK?’
• Realise that the road is not a race track, it is not specifically designed to allow you to go as fast as you can with everyone going in the same direction.
Anyone have any other ideas?

[Blackbird]

Take responsibility for raising your own roadcraft skills. Waiting for someone else to do something is a cop-out and hell will probably freeze over first anyway

[tigertim20]

Very true!

Mind you, when I brought up last year that I was gonna do some rider refresher training...the chorus of disparaging remarks summed up the notion of "it's someone elses problem, not mine" is alive and well. And this from a group of guys who've got far less experience than myself, and far more accidents under their belts....

Lack of patience is the single biggest problem on our roads, at least in my opinion...

but, I have a licence, so, I dont need to learn anything else!!!

So to summarise,

• Speed is most often a factor but not always the cause of an accident.
• NZ has more than its fair share of poorly designed / maintained roads
• Our driver licensing system turns out poorly trained and over confident drivers
• Too many people think it is fine to operate a motor vehicle after drinking / smoking / shooting up etc.

It would seem that we are all very good at identifying the problems, what are some solutions?

I’ll get the ball rolling (ideas, not personal opinions)...
• If you wish to indulge in your recreational drug of choice then do so, by all means, just leave the keys and your vehicle at home. ZERO tolerance, removes the question of ‘how much is OK?’
• Realise that the road is not a race track, it is not specifically designed to allow you to go as fast as you can with everyone going in the same direction.
Anyone have any other ideas?

your summary looks good.
as for solutions, the one regarding tolerance looks good too. Ive seen several tests where they took a group and let them drink steadily, some eating, some not eating. the results were all over the place, several could drink an unreal amount of piss and still pass, others had fuckall, felt 100% and failed it - a ''tolerance" is saying 'Nah, have a couple its ok'. it isnt.

as for the 'road isnt a race track' (and I make this comment to cars as well as bikes) I dont think it has a whole lot to do with wanting to go fast, so much as it has to do with showing off, showing off can de done by going fast, racing, burnouts, stupidly loud music etc etc - that issue (the one of lunacy on the roads) is, IMO, the harder one to find a solution for. How do you stop 16 year old captain spotty face from redlining it past the school to show to the boys because he is full of testosterone, how do you get premature peter to not hang the back of the cefiro out when he's all boned up at that piece of ass from the girls college he just drove past? - thats a deeper issue about changing the general social value base, not just in youth (though they are generally over represented) but also in the older muppets. IMO that kind of stuf (road lunacy) stems from chemical reactions, erections, and sluts with tight arses giving people a boner, or high levels of testosterone when the boys are hanging together and someone is dared to do a 'mean skid bro'

[Scuba_Steve]

So to summarise,

• Speed is ALWAYS a factor but NEVER the cause of an accident.
• NZ has more than its fair share of poorly designed / maintained roads
• Our driver licensing system turns out poorly trained and over confident drivers
• Too many people think it is fine to operate a motor vehicle after drinking / smoking / shooting up etc.

It would seem that we are all very good at identifying the problems, what are some solutions?

I’ll get the ball rolling (ideas, not personal opinions)...
• If you wish to indulge in your recreational drug of choice then do so, by all means, just leave the keys and your vehicle at home. ZERO tolerance, removes the question of ‘how much is OK?’
• Realise that the road is not a race track, it is not specifically designed to allow you to go as fast as you can with everyone going in the same direction.
Anyone have any other ideas?

Zero for booze is just beyond stupid, so I hope that wasn't included in your "drug of choice" solution, but all pre-bottled/canned drinks should come in 1 standard drink per bottle/can & the 4 for guys 2 for chicks message should be pushed, social engineering.
As for other drugs, hard to tolerance without more details as to effects but ones like Coke, P, Speed, etc shouldn't be on the road & probably shouldn't be in the person either

Speed scam should be abolished, we should split traffic & cops again. Traffic would do bad driving speed being a null & cops would do what they should be doing

To get a licence you should have to complete a simulation which would go through multiple aspects of driving including but not limited to hill starts, merges, parallel parking, faulty traffic lights etc. Simulation would be manual gearbox and there would be no human interaction, the computer would decide so no room for, lets call it "human error" for want of a better word.

Bring the roading maintenance back under Govt no 3rd party corporation trying to maximize profit rather than roading properly

There thats my suggestion overview for your summery

[ducatilover]

So to summarise,

• Speed is most often a factor but not always the cause of an accident.

Always a factor, two immobile objects do not collide.
It's the driver's fault.
Ask Katman.

[FJRider]

So to summarise,

• Speed is most often a factor but not always the cause of an accident.
• NZ has more than its fair share of poorly designed / maintained roads
• Our driver licensing system turns out poorly trained and over confident drivers
• Too many people think it is fine to operate a motor vehicle after drinking / smoking / shooting up etc.

It would seem that we are all very good at identifying the problems, what are some solutions?

If speed IS a factor ... it becomes one of the causes. Most accidents are caused by a number of causes. Often ... remove one factor ... and the accident wont (may not) happen. If it still happens ... the likelyhood of less serious injurys may result, the lower the speed at which ... that accident occurs.

Design and build qualitys of New Zealand, roads have nothing to do with the belief of some ... that they can travel on roads like the lower south island west coast ... at the same speed they travel on city motorways (or vice-versa). Same speed limit ... right ... ???

Whatever driver licensing system is used in any country ... it is the vehicle operators usual belief ... that the result of failure to obey any road rules ... may only just result in a financial fine ... or at worst, the loss of their drivers licence. The real cost, is not deaths ... but a long term recovery from injurys. AND long term non-recovery (to full health) injurys.

What people think is OK prior to driving on the roads is not the issue. THEY know the effects ... but they either think those effects never happen with them ... or they just don't give a dam.

Perhaps ... the solution is for people to start ... GIVING A DAM ... !!!

[Akzle]

When you eventually crash, and it will be a beauty cos you'll be speeding as well as being drunk, can you make sure you hit the only tree on the road and not take out anyone else? Cheers!

i haven't been drunk this year... probably haven't driven drunk in the last 2. and me crashing is highly unlikely, but i do take your concerns on board.

Zero for booze is just beyond stupid,

...Speed scam should be abolished, we should split traffic & cops again. Traffic would do bad driving speed being a null & cops would do what they should be doing

zero tolerance for booze is a fucking good idea (as far as government policy goes). and really easy to enforce. no "back to the station for evidential testing" - you been drinking, don't fucking drive. how easy is that?

i don't think we could go back to having a seperate transport ministry. but maybe they could lump the cops in with their new superministy. it'd save some $$ on politicians too.

[The Singing Chef]

Some good points that I will incorporate into my piece.

Quickly though, I think that the one thing that the Government needs to do is to get tough, not as much on speeding, but more so on bad driving etc... Push ads etc... on those as well. Thorough and challenging driver training and class room sessions detailing in-depth lessons on being a road user. If some one is at fault in a crash, make them take another course or something of the sort.

More about everything soon, will also ponder over your arguments and draw something up for those as well.

[Akzle]

...not as much on speeding, but more so on bad driving etc... Push ads etc... on those as well. Thorough and challenging driver training and class room sessions detailing in-depth lessons on being a road user. If some one is at fault in a crash, make them take another course or something of the sort.

the "northland freight group' has radio ads that tell people how to drive:
"most single vehicle accidents happen on bends
if you're braking in or through a corner you've got it wrong"
(they also say go 10 below)
and that "all loads handle differently"

these kind of messages should be pushed (unfortunately enforcement is just not profitable)

i think a community awareness website (two run in tandem) bad-driver.org and good-driver.org, where joe public can tell the time, place, and vehicle that he has witnessed driving well/badly (with brief description) then you can log on, check out cars in you area matching your description and see what your neighbors think of ya.
obviously women whinging about, well, pretty much anything, will be screened.

i don't think you have a shitshow of changing anything in govt, let alone a profitable licensing system. the motivation needs to come from the people, how you get the ignorant masses to buy in.... anyone's game.

[Maki]

Zero for booze is just beyond stupid, so I hope that wasn't included in your "drug of choice" solution, but all pre-bottled/canned drinks should come in 1 standard drink per bottle/can & the 4 for guys 2 for chicks message should be pushed, social engineering.
As for other drugs, hard to tolerance without more details as to effects but ones like Coke, P, Speed, etc shouldn't be on the road & probably shouldn't be in the person either

Speed scam should be abolished, we should split traffic & cops again. Traffic would do bad driving speed being a null & cops would do what they should be doing

To get a licence you should have to complete a simulation which would go through multiple aspects of driving including but not limited to hill starts, merges, parallel parking, faulty traffic lights etc. Simulation would be manual gearbox and there would be no human interaction, the computer would decide so no room for, lets call it "human error" for want of a better word.

Bring the roading maintenance back under Govt no 3rd party corporation trying to maximize profit rather than roading properly

There thats my suggestion overview for your summery

The simulation is a great idea, but what would happen to the nazi testers who fail people when they find one dog hair in the car seat? They would have to get a real job, booo hooo.

Do any statistics exist regarding the cause of traffic accidents in New Zealand? If not, someone is not doing their job. If these statistics do not exist then how do we know what is the cause of fatal crashes? I think the main cause is Bogans but I don't know because I don't have the stats.

I do know that speed sometimes saves lives. They used to have no speed limits in parts of northern Australia. As soon as they imposed limits and POLICE started enforcing them fatal accidents increased. Why? Because drivers drove slower and stopped paying as much attention.

[GTRMAN]

Zero for booze is just beyond stupid, so I hope that wasn't included in your "drug of choice" solution, but all pre-bottled/canned drinks should come in 1 standard drink per bottle/can & the 4 for guys 2 for chicks message should be pushed, social engineering.
As for other drugs, hard to tolerance without more details as to effects but ones like Coke, P, Speed, etc shouldn't be on the road & probably shouldn't be in the person either

Speed scam should be abolished, we should split traffic & cops again. Traffic would do bad driving speed being a null & cops would do what they should be doing

To get a licence you should have to complete a simulation which would go through multiple aspects of driving including but not limited to hill starts, merges, parallel parking, faulty traffic lights etc. Simulation would be manual gearbox and there would be no human interaction, the computer would decide so no room for, lets call it "human error" for want of a better word.

Bring the roading maintenance back under Govt no 3rd party corporation trying to maximize profit rather than roading properly

There thats my suggestion overview for your summery

Why is zero tolerance for booze beyond stupid?

[Scuba_Steve]

Why is zero tolerance for booze beyond stupid?

1stly it's been shown that 1-2 drinks improves driving in most people.
but more importantly you would appreciate 6mths no driving & 800$ fine for having a bundagerg ginger beer or lemon & lime bitters, some cough syurp or even just that banana thats been sitting in the sun would you???
The problem isn't those staying under the limit, the problem are those 2, 3, 4x the limit. Lowering the limit isn't going to magically stop them, incase you hadn't picked up on it yet they're already over the current limit. All zero would do is screw over the rest of us & make another huge money grab for the Govt.
If you wanna be prosecuted every time you have a Bundaberg & drive Just send me 800$ every time you do it. That way you get what you want, I get money, & everyone else isn't screwed by the Govt for more money from effectively what will be another scam. It's a win, win, win

[GTRMAN]

1stly it's been shown that 1-2 drinks improves driving in most people.
but more importantly you would appreciate 6mths no driving & 800$ fine for having a bundagerg ginger beer or lemon & lime bitters, some cough syurp or even just that banana thats been sitting in the sun would you???
The problem isn't those staying under the limit, the problem are those 2, 3, 4x the limit. Lowering the limit isn't going to magically stop them, incase you hadn't picked up on it yet they're already over the current limit. All zero would do is screw over the rest of us & make another huge money grab for the Govt.
If you wanna be prosecuted every time you have a Bundaberg & drive Just send me 800$ every time you do it. That way you get what you want, I get money, & everyone else isn't screwed by the Govt for more money from effectively what will be another scam. It's a win, win, win

Where has it been shown? Lots of people trucking out this viewpoint but no link to any published studies...

[FJRider]

1stly it's been shown that 1-2 drinks improves driving in most people.

It was actually shown that drivers, after having a few drinks, drove with fewer inhibitions, less thought to possible outcomes .... and with more confidence in their decision making. Not necessarily though ... better decision making ... than they would ... sober.

[Scuba_Steve]

Where has it been shown? Lots of people trucking out this viewpoint but no link to any published studies...

It was a UK study I think? (somewhere in Euro anyways) I saw it in paper form (might have been that science mag?).

It wasn't straight "drinking makes you a better driver". But what it came down to was, a couple of drinks wasn't enough to inhibit your driving ability (lets face it driving isn't exactly genius territory, tho with the amount that can't do it you'd think it was) but it did relax the drivers so when they went through the random SURPRISE obstacle driving simulation they avoided the obstacle rather than panicking & hitting it or sending the vehicle outta control like they did when sober.

I'll go on the search & see if I can find it for you.