Gareth Morgan in the Herald on ACC levies for bikers

[bogan]

And of course, your comments couldn't possibly be read as a display of bitterness at your failure to raise an army under your own flag, could it?

I think past experience has given me far more insight than bitterness, the later is simply a waste of time/effort that benefits nobody.

... and at least bikers could opt out of supporting us! Pity they did, but I'd rather have no support than forced support.

[oneofsix]

I get that but I can't quite see how we can do it yet... (fairly) I mean I know one poor beggar who has been left permanently disabled after getting cleared out (with malice) by a drunk driver while he was sitting at a red light. Sure he was on his motorcycle but.... You could hardly ping him for that.

Then there was the girl in Nelson knocked off her scooter by hoons, should she be penalised by ACC as well as the hoons?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/7...rider-off-road
(Physical injuries nothing like those of Paul's post admittedly.)

Saw a hi-vis rider, riding in typical hi-vis cautious style, nearly smeared up the guardrail in the gorge the other evening, showing bad shit happens to even careful riders.

Get away frothe insurance and literation and blame models. They only provide false hope. Real change comes from co-operation, shared risk and benefit.

[Katman]

Get away frothe insurance and literation and blame models. They only provide false hope. Real change comes from co-operation, shared risk and benefit.

Our current system has done little more than help create a society where accountability is a dirty word.

While we continue with a system that allows people to have a "fuck you jack, I'll ride however I like and not give a fuck how my actions impact on you" attitude, we'll continue to see no improvement.

[avgas]

I have discussions with the AA policy team and I'm known for robustly representing views of motorcyclists.

Good for you.
Sorry for asking this - but what exactly have you delivered to the motorcycling community through these talks?

- Does the AA now fight for motorcyclists?
- Are there special motorcycle based premiums with the AA?
- Does the AA offer helpful roadside assistance to motorcyclist?

Hence I re-ask the question : "be heard where?" and add a "was it worth it?"

If a motorcyclist bleets about motorcycles to the AA - does anybody hear it?

[oldrider]

If a motorcyclist bleets about motorcycles to the AA - does anybody hear it?

"NO"

They only pause for breath, long enough to give themselves time to think up another negative motorcycle related comment!

[Murray]

And of course, your comments couldn't possibly be read as a display of bitterness at your failure to raise an army under your own flag, could it?

I think past experience has given me far more insight than bitterness, the later is simply a waste of time/effort that benefits nobody.

Well said Bogan and perhaps you could add and look to the future and not dredge up and condemn the past as some seem prone to do!!!

[Voltaire]

Just wondering..... are the stats higher for motorcycles used as recreational vehicles ( ie the weekend) than daily transport?

I think I am more at risk on my daily commute than on the open road, my bikes are all under 60HP without fairings so they give the illusion of speed without having to do it...

I have been using a Hi Viz vest for the last year but car drivers are so intent of getting to work/home , texting, phoning, yakking or listening to whatever passes as music in their nice overpowered metal boxes that they are oblivious to other road users.

Personally the best rider training I have had was the California Superbike School and the AMCC Art days, some bucket racing to give an appreciation of pain and a bit of dirt bike riding to teach balance and control skills.

All your Hi Viz vests, signs saying watch for bikes, and TV adds are a woftam.

Make riding a scooter for 6 months part of getting a car licence, teach the cagers a bit of courtesy for other road users.

[Scuba_Steve]

"Next, some have suggested that if the accident is the fault of a car say then it’s unfair to have levied the motorcyclist in the way I suggest. That is confused logic. The levy amount reflects the risk of the activity not who causes the accidents. Generally speaking if two cars collide the passengers don’t get injured as much as motorcyclists do in a car vs motorcycle situation. So no matter who causes the injury to the motorcyclist, the activity of motorcycling is more risky, and with that the injury bill is higher".

So Gareth...are you happy to pay a huge amount more for driving your car on our roads as compared to a Logging truck? Because I can tell you now who's gonna come off second best no matter who's at fault.

Wasn't the next step to charge the trucks more ACC because of the damage they can do to others... but wait isn't that going against the whole "justification" for increasing bike levies

What breaks my heart about this is what its done to motorcyclists. These sorts of things tear communities like ours apart and cause rifts that will never heal. Its a damn shame and quite possibly not even really needed, its just becoming an exercise in wielding power and while I'd like to think it's not deliberate - I worry that its not.

Same successful tactic as always... Divide & conquer

Already being done, those who avoid crashing have to pay less for repairs, have bikes in better nick, and don't get injured. Those who don't make the effort, find the opposite. I'm still struggling to see how adding extra cost for those who crash, will change the 'it'll never happen to me (again)' mindset?

It's one of these "great" ideas, up there with fining the people who don't pay fines

Our current system has done little more than help create a society where accountability is a dirty word.

While we continue with a system that allows people to have a "fuck you jack, I'll ride however I like and not give a fuck how my actions impact on you" attitude, we'll continue to see no improvement.

No insurance (what they're trying to turn ACC into) creates a "society where accountability is a dirty word." Insurance forces you not to take accountability.

As for the ""fuck you jack, I'll ride however I like and not give a fuck how my actions impact on you" attitude" you speak of, if you think insurance like system is going to change that. You're stupider than you appear. Next you'll be telling me America has no boy racers, all their bikers are ATGATT, & there is no drink driving over there cause after all they have an insurance system so all this would be abolished as per your argument.

[Crasherfromwayback]

but wait isn't that going against the whole "justification" for increasing bike levies
.

Sure is. Odd.

[Katman]

No insurance (what they're trying to turn ACC into) creates a "society where accountability is a dirty word." Insurance forces you not to take accountability.

As for the ""fuck you jack, I'll ride however I like and not give a fuck how my actions impact on you" attitude" you speak of, if you think insurance like system is going to change that. You're stupider than you appear. Next you'll be telling me America has no boy racers, all their bikers are ATGATT, & there is no drink driving over there cause after all they have an insurance system so all this would be abolished as per your argument.

No, having a system that allows people to crash time and time again with no repercussions to themselves is what creates a lack of accountability.

In an insurance system if you don't learn from your mistakes you'll soon find yourself uninsurable.

[Paul in NZ]

No, having a system that allows people to crash time and time again with no repercussions to themselves is what creates a lack of accountability.

In an insurance system if you don't learn from your mistakes you'll soon find yourself uninsurable.

That I can agree with.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, having a system that allows people to crash time and time again with no repercussions to themselves is what creates a lack of accountability.

.

I'm not so sure about that. Surely most motorcyclists know that falling off hurts like fuck. Doubt too many of them actually think there are no repercussions at all.

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm not so sure about that. Surely most motorcyclists know that falling off hurts like fuck. Doubt too many of them actually think there are no repercussions at all.

yea fuck the cost, it's the hurting that stops be from doing it. Money comes, money goes. Pain can last along time

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pain can last along time

Yeah I learnt that one not long into my riding years.

[Katman]

It's a shame that we've become a society too stupid to learn from the mistakes of others though.