Forum whore
I think MotoNZ should hire really cool actors like Justin Beeber and Lady Gaga to make a TV series about really cool people who ride motorcycles really safely while providing public safety messages about safe riding, safe sex and the evils of alcohol, drugs and tobacco. That's what I'd do if I had the Lamingtons.
Either that or eat them all while watching peep shows.
Political correctness: a doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end.
Senior Grumpy Old Bastard
I'd agree that the running and organising is going to be the biggest issue. The course content, or levels of skill required to pass is really already written and the systems already developed. There are/were various organisations in the UK since the 1980's.. Star rider was a very popular one in the London area, RAC/ACU ran courses, and there is the current ones that are aided and run by Police Motorcyclists.. Taking that information we are already 'ahead' in developing training programs, what we really need is 'High level trainers' to teach Tutors/Mentors and to 'peer observe' to keep standards to the correct levels.Originally Posted by bogan
My guess is the 'weekend warriors' will of course 'not need' said training, as they are all Rossi clones, and only ride in good weather and for a few hours on a Sunday morning/afternoon. That would likely account for a good 50% of riders, then there are the commuters and 'lifetime/everyday' riders. Probably they are the 'groups' that will come to these training courses on a voluntary basis. Unless we DO introduce a stepped license system, and gain 'rewards' for standardised improved levels of skill in riding. How do I know that the weekend warriors wont attend voluntary courses? they never did when I was doing them in the UK, wasn't 'cool' for sprot bikers to be seen in a 'gaggle' of riders doing things slow and sensible.
If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf
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Agreed, which is why I think what is missing, is something between the nitty gritty of the techniques the courses teach, and the vague interest in self improvement. Something to provoke riders into thinking about what things they need to focus on; tools for critical evaluation so they can decide what nitty gritty techniques to improve with either the aid of a rider skills course or well written literature.
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Well, this is awkward...
Removing the it's-all-ACC's-fault factor from the equation, my concern is that the motorcycling industry in New Zealand is in crisis and needs urgent help or it may expire altogether.
Maybe there needs to be a summit where industry representatives can all get together and discuss the best course of action to take to actively improve rider skills - professional trainers, shop owners, importers, rider representatives, police(?), even someone from ACC if they've got the gumption - people who are involved at the coalface and therefore are much more likely to know what they're talking about than me and can come up with a course of action to help make us more safety conscious. Free training with the purchase of a new bike, for example.
But not just an expensive talk-fest, 'cos they hardly ever happen. And they're not allowed out until they come up with something. And the rest of us have to at least try whatever they come up with without first dismissing it out of hand.
Much nerrrdy-er: a travelling roadshow track day with a "how good a rider are you really?" theme, using a course with different road surfaces/hazards, supervised by qualified trainers, could be a timed competition between teams based on cruisers vs sport bikes vs dual purpose or maybe makes of bike, Honda vs Suzuki vs BMW etc, like a "gymkhana". You think you're a great rider, so prove it, winner gets to wear an awesome custom yellow hi-vis vest...oh yeah! Who wouldn't want to get involved in that! Well I might...
Remind John Key (the minister for tourism) that Henry Cole told everyone on the Travel Channel that New Zealand is a motorcycling nirvana, and if people arrive from overseas and have to ask "where are all the bikers then?" it'll be bad for tourism.
A series of "scared straight" type ads, riders who have crashed telling their stories, don't do what I did, get some training, I did and now I'm back on the bike and enjoying it more than ever (cue mentos smile)...expensive and might put people off riding altogether, and then there's that "it'll never happen to me" thing that people do.
Sorry got a bit carried away here.
Registered User
FFs its worth our best shot isnt it...???
I was pissed off about the whole MSAC thing but I was up for seeing how they went and measure them on their results and actions. After all, means more than words eh...
More fool me, they have emerged as nothing but a mouthpiece for the government's agenda. The only light I saw was that a bikers rights organisation was represented at the time but now even that is not the case, not a good look people.
I agree that we need to take responsibility for our own riding, after all we are the ones that start the engine every day so what happens after that is down to us. At the same time we need to challenge this whole council, take them to task and get what is best for us.
Time, effort and real commitment. Lose the egos, agenda's, jibing and knife throwing. Just get on with it because according to their website, 'we own the options'. Well, lets take ownership of them
God's Evil Twin
Depends on end goal. If it's to lower cost then yep I can see why it won't work.
All this shit we're being fed is just an excuse being used to "justify" raising cost, it is NOT the reason. The reason is privatization. The excuse is just that, an excuse, one that'll be changed as necessary to obtain the end goal of raising costs & privatizing ACC. Nothing will change that only excuses used will be changed.
Also does anyone know are mopeds still on car licenses & are they still being lumped with bikes???
If so then you ain't gonna achieve a whole lot till they're forced to get the equivalent to a bike licence. I would estimate mopeds to be anywhere upto 30-40% of the "bike" fleet?
Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance"Pornography: The thing with billions of views that nobody watches" - WhiteManBehindADesk
Bored Room
Maybe if someone ( else) formed a Party for Kiwi Blokes around hunting, fishing, driving,surfing, riding etc it might be possible to get 5% of the vote and become like Peter Dunn....
Hey Gareth, there are needy people here in NZ too but probably not as glamourous riding around South Auckland on a BMW as treking around Africa.
Makes me want to have a public burning of Hi Viz vests.....
Another couple of years and we will end up like the one on the right with biker burkas :
DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.
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Yup, it is just over 30% iirc. One might ask how including large number of vehicles that struggle to do 50kmhr affect our per km risk tooThey are also on bike licenses, and both license test are a joke anyway...
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Bogeyman
And they wonder why we have no faith in their accident analisys. I suppose someone must have compared our data collection criteria against similar countries and found it to be broadly identical and found, therefore that all of the negative comparisons are valid?Yup, it is just over 30% iirc. One might ask how including large number of vehicles that struggle to do 50kmhr affect our per km risk too
Scuba Steve might be a bit off the mark in identifying the govt's "real" objective, time will tell. But there's no doubt at all that the way data is collected and selected is groomed to suit the current policy change proposals. Why is the steriotype of the born again biker who buys a Harley/GSXR and immediately crashes it rolled out again? The only facts I've seen surrounding accidents for that demographic is the decline in accidents over the last decade or so, the same period that those who learned to ride forty years ago started to swell rider numbers again, as they did in the seventies. That, and the fact that the highest crash demographic by the length of the back straight is learners and under 25's.
Yes 40 and 50y olds crash, but surely the reason that particular group is singled out isn't because they crash a great deal, but because it costs ACC rather more to cover their income. That, and the perception that they can afford any increase in levies to that particular sector. So yes, by all means levy the rider rather than the bike, and by all means let's have some form of no-clains bonus. But let's hear no more bullshit about having to re-sit your licence or start from scratch if you decide not to ride for a year or two, it just doesn't hold water.
While I'm at it, I'm of the opinion that no ammount of fiddling with levies, advertising or licencing will change the accident stat's much. Consider: who's opinions regarding this current debate, here have changed at all? Anyone? So why on earth would you expect to change such a fundimental human characteristic as personal day to day risk management, a characteristic that operates in split seconds rather than hours of debate.
No, there'll be no dramatic change in the accident stat's short of pricing motorcycles off the road. At which time I'd say the stat's used to demonstrate the success of any policy change will be accidents per year, not per rider.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Forum whore
A change in attitude would be the single greatest step in the right direction.
We have to stop looking for ways to blame our misfortunes on everyone/everything else and start investigating how a change in our own actions could avoid those misfortunes in the first place.
We need to lose the acceptance of crashing as being "just one of those things that happen to all of us".
"Shame to hear about your crash, but at least you now get to go bike shopping again" shouldn't be our mantra.
"Wake the fuck up to yourself" should.
Come warm yourself by the fire
Not entirely true. The cause to increase can come internally........from recall it wasn't a case of ACC running out of money for payouts that prompted the increase. It was the fact that the "insurance buffer" fence posts moved.
So reality is that you, I or any motorcyclist has no control what so ever in regards to the Levy. If the govt want's to build the coffer/buffer to the next 1000 years, increasing the levy to 10 times the amount it is now. - no one will be able to stop them.
Before you say "BULLSH...!"......I'll ask you a simply question?
What was the levy in the past?
I personally would like to see a decrease in crash stats, independent of anything to do with ACC. But I fear this will come about at the same proportion of decrease in motorcycles on roads. A bit like the stats "Deaths by automatic weapons in NZ" showing a significant decrease in the last 15 or so years.
But even that stat is probably not zero.
Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.
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I agree with all of that, but also realise there are two sides to effecting the change, motivation to change, and the personal cost of effecting the change. Reduce the cost, and it won't take as much motivation. Calling idiots out when they fuck up is one way to increase the motivation, the widespread provision of the tools to aid in a riders identification of their shortcoming is something that I think will be helpful also.
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Forum whore
Isn't the simple answer to most shortcomings something along these lines;
1. Retain rego based collection (for ease of implementation and best cost effect and because amongst many other reasons single rider levies don't account for passenger injury costs).
2. Establish a register system by which owners of multiple bikes (who don't loan or hire them out) pay only a single annual Multi bike ACC levy with a time clock that only runs when at least one of the owned bike regos is live. This would involve an initial set up cost and ongoing administration cost in excess of the current system which could be covered by a multi bike account admin fee (per bike) and time clock admin fees to switch the clock off on rainy days and back on when the sun shines.
3. Establish appropriate criteria for and tender out rider and driver training, safety and first aid courses of four or five categories with tough assessment criteria and score based 0 to 10 assessment results (rather than pass or fail). Make the certificates valid for a maximum of three years.
4. Provide levy discount of 1% for every currently certified point achieved through participation in the recognised training courses. With a cap of 50%.
That's my rational moment for the day.
Political correctness: a doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd from the clean end.
Bogeyman
Fuck those blue pills don't last long.
In registering motorcycles in Switzerland a single plate is issued. You can bung it on any machine you own.
Too simple?
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
In the riders seat
The simple answer is to put it on fuel, but then they couldn't target and shaft particular groups of road users
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
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