Gareth Morgan in the Herald on ACC levies for bikers

[scumdog]

Fuck those blue pills don't last long.

In registering motorcycles in Switzerland a single plate is issued. You can bung it on any machine you own.

Too simple?

How expensive is their rego?

And what kind of accident cover do they have.

The 'one-cost-regardless-of- bikes-owned' idea would not be popular when the cost is figured out, it would be astronomical and I guess the poor guy with on old GN 250 wouldn't be happy to see the 'rich' fella with 6 bikes paying the same amount as him.

[Scuba_Steve]

How expensive is their rego?

And what kind of accident cover do they have.

The 'one-cost-regardless-of- bikes-owned' idea would not be popular when the cost is figured out, it would be astronomical and I guess the poor guy with on old GN 250 wouldn't be happy to see the 'rich' fella with 6 bikes paying the same amount as him.

If I'm reading the right info, the avg driver would be paying around $300-650 NZD for vehicle licensing each year (you pay for highest capacity engine all others included) & their accident cover/health care is amongst (if not) the best in the world.

Trucks might get stung a little tho their highest cost is around $9k NZD (I assume this is for "big rigs") but da dude with only a GN250 would be paying around $150 NZD

[Ocean1]

How expensive is their rego?

And what kind of accident cover do they have.

Looks like registration cost 45 francs.

Passenger accident insurance is private and optional.

The 'one-cost-regardless-of- bikes-owned' idea would not be popular when the cost is figured out, it would be astronomical and I guess the poor guy with on old GN 250 wouldn't be happy to see the 'rich' fella with 6 bikes paying the same amount as him.

Probably not. Bet he'd be almost as unhappy as the multiple bike owners who are currently paying his share of that astronomical fee.

[Ocean1]

If I'm reading the right info, the avg driver would be paying around $300-650 NZD for vehicle licensing each year (you pay for highest capacity engine all others included) & their accident cover/health care is amongst (if not) the best in the world.

It's a power / weight formula, and yes you pay for your Porshe RS, the rest are free.

[avgas]

Well, I beg to differ if you'll allow me esteemed sir.
I'd quite like my multiple registrations to be cheaper.

Explain to me how MotoNZ makes them cheaper. They give you a coupon or something?

[idb]

Explain to me how MotoNZ makes them cheaper. They give you a coupon or something?

Can I remind you of your statement

Doubt very much that skilled/experience riders want anything changed at all.

...and from there it degenerated into foulmouthery such that I couldn't read any more.

So...in a nutshell...I would very much like things to change to the extent of not being charged ACC for more than one bike.

[avgas]

Context is a wonderful thing. All previous statements are re: conversations with MotoNZ.
I fail to see how MotoNZ = decrease in ACC levvy seeing as that is there employer an all.

But while we are at it - may as well keep going. I would like MotoNZ to decrease my ACC levy and give me new brake pads for at least one of my bikes. Anyone want a Pony?

Can I remind you of your statement

...and from there it degenerated into foulmouthery such that I couldn't read any more.

So...in a nutshell...I would very much like things to change to the extent of not being charged ACC for more than one bike.

Doubt very much that skilled/experience riders want anything changed at all. Experienced riders know what to expect and plan accordingly.
Any rider that has any suggestion for MotoNZ apart from "Fuck off" or "give me back my money"...........shows a lack of ability to comprehend things around them (including other riders).........aka experience.

Experience has shown me that making the roads safer, making drivers more aware, creating training courses etc etc............generally does not improve the road toll.

They probably DO read all those 'good ideas', from each experienced rider.

Only it must be like reading a giant shopping list from the Tower of Babel...

How about Garth Jones and his posse actually read whats written to them, from Motorcyclists with equal or more experience than them sometimes, take it on board and actually do something with some ideas that they get eh????????????
at the moment we pay $30 per bike for them to do something but don't actually get an voice to suggest things that may help.

[idb]

Context is a wonderful thing. All previous statements are re: conversations with MotoNZ.
I fail to see how MotoNZ = decrease in ACC levvy seeing as that is there employer an all.

But while we are at it - may as well keep going. I would like MotoNZ to decrease my ACC levy and give me new brake pads for at least one of my bikes. Anyone want a Pony?

Isn't that what I said?
I would like things to change so that I get a decrease in my ACC levy...MotoNZ could do it, The Red Crescent could do it, I don't care.


I don't need no stinkin' context!!!

[Swoop]

I personally would like to see a decrease in crash stats, independent of anything to do with ACC. But I fear this will come about at the same proportion of decrease in motorcycles on roads.

If motorcyclists did make a decrease in accident statistics, the idiots at the top will only claim that it was their policies (etc, etc) that made the decrease. A bit like Paula Rose claiming the fatality-free long weekend was police doing and had absolutely nothing to do with the shittiest weather for yonks.
Guess what will happen to the levy? Would it go up or down...?

We are on a loser to nothing either way. (Oops, fucked up the spelling for KB, should have been "Looser").

[Voltaire]

How can motorcyclists decrease the stats, surely no one sets out from home with the intention of being in a crash?
When on the bike I am a lot more focused that when in the van as I don't look at every side street and parked car trying to guess what they will do.
Really all the Govt has to do is price motorcycles off the road, I bet the rego take is well down on pre 2010.

My wife went on a 'Free' ACC scooter course....only 2 people could be bothered turning up.......makes it easy for ACC to say they offered and no one was interested.

In a few years it will be " looks Mummy( er care person who may be male or female)...whats that...?.."
" oh its a motorcycle you don't see many of them any more'

[GTRMAN]

How can motorcyclists decrease the stats, surely no one sets out from home with the intention of being in a crash?
'

- Commitment to better training / upskilling
- Riding to the conditions
- Being aware and considerate of other road users
- Not treating the road as your own personal race track.
- Having an accurate picture of our actual skill level rather than what our ego tells us.....

[avgas]

- Commitment to better training / upskilling
- Riding to the conditions
- Being aware and considerate of other road users
- Not treating the road as your own personal race track.
- Having an accurate picture of our actual skill level rather than what our ego tells us.....

So not driving like a politician then?

[Voltaire]

- Commitment to better training / upskilling
- Riding to the conditions
- Being aware and considerate of other road users
- Not treating the road as your own personal race track.
- Having an accurate picture of our actual skill level rather than what our ego tells us.....

If every one did that what a nice world it would be........the Govt is using the time honoured method of stopping what they don't like....taxation. Price the problem off the road.

[caseye]

I've copied and posted this from the speeding thread.
I have asked Shesti if I could and I've not altered it in anyway.
My point in posting this here is I feel it is entirely relevant to our discussion re driver/rider training standards being so low here that if we actually made a concerted effort to clean things up we could do a lot in a short time.
Attitude, Ability, responsibility, they all go out the window when we give motor vehicles to novices.
Lets work on not giving novices anything until they proved they can handle it.

"Now, I come from Europe, and I can say that infrastructure and speed are NOT the causes of people here crashing. It's simple - people here just can't drive. They are pampered by government laws, it's too easy to get the license, and speed limits make people mediocre. That is also THE ONLY reason for traffic jams in Auckland - people just don't know how to drive.
I was present when a guy got his motorcycle license without obviously being able to control his bike.
My friend is a taxi driver here, and he gets calls on a regular basis from people who just ask him to park their car?!?
You are not thought how to change lanes and include in traffic - instead of increasing the speed and keeping with the traffic - people here slow down and expect someone to brake and let them change lanes.
There are many examples - who's been driving in any European country knows what I mean.

Other things I've noticed:

I've seen much worse roads - and people driving much faster safely on them without problems.

Automatic transmission makes idiots of drivers - there's no way you can properly learn to drive unless driving manual.

100 kph speed limit is ridiculous. If that is normal - cars & bikes that go over 200 wouldn't be made.

In Germany there are Autobahns where there's no speed limit - and crash rate on them is above 50% less than on regular Autobahns. You drive much more careful when you know that someone can fly by you driving 250 or more (oh, yeah, driving slow in the right lane on motorway and not moving to the left when someone behind you is approaching faster is one of the things NZ drivers also do).
There was an experiment in America (I don't remember, Nevada or Arizona or something) where they've taken off speed limit from one portion of highway. For that portion - rate of crashes decreased 70%. As soon as they returned speed limit on - the crash rate got back to same again.

Speed limits in NZ are too low, and drivers are really bad. Investing in drivers education and raising the standards for issuing someone a drivers license - with a more practise driving oriented test, where driver actually proves that he/she is able to control the vehicle would do much more than limiting speed. All the crashes I've seen here are caused by the people that doesn't know how to control their vehicle. I haven't seen such rate of bad drives anywhere in the world, and believe me - I've been places In fact - I've been shocked seeing how people (cannot) drive here.

There's much to that, and personal responsibility and knowing your capabilities - never drive beyond them...but - if you never go near the border - you'll never improve... "

Many thanks Shesti

[Voltaire]

I suggest Shesti asks his Taxi mate to drop him at the airport.

I 've ridden/driven in Europe on and off the Autobahns ( they are pretty boring) and driving in Germany is very good...as is Belguim , Denmark, Sweden and Norway..it goes into decline the further south you go.....The French the Spanish, Portugese, Greek and Turkish drivers are pretty average.....
I saw a spectacular crash once on the Autobahn between Stutgart and Munich....the tail back went back miles......the cars were a mess as you would expect at 160 kmph plus ( it was the olden days of the 80's)